Wizard22 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:11 am
The point is, noble and wealthy societies tend not to last long across history. This maybe the case for USA, the "American Empire", or "Western Civilization", depending on how these terms are argued and defined.
I think you are confused. There's no such thing as societies (plural). There's society (singular). The whole thing of human affairs.
Countries/nations/empires come and go.
Society carries on.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:11 am
As I argued to Iwan, it could be as simple as optimism across a population over time. It's complicated.
Obviously it's complicated, but what good is optimisim if it ultimately causes the quality of life to diminish?
Hoping for the best doesn't work unless you are ready to deal with the worst also.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:11 am
AND societies don't keep improving forever automatically. Many fail, hence the declines.
There's your conceptual confusion again. Yes nations and empires fall but society (as a whole!) keeps improving.
It's not automatic, but it's
despite the failure of empires and nations.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:11 am
If this is the crux of your argument, then it's a bad one. You're implying that people don't work like slaves and dogs today.
I am implying no such thing. What I am saying is that the working conditions today are better than they were 5000 years ago.
But I sense you are going for the false equivalence again.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:11 am
They do. And many do, in the West, under the auspice of "illegal immigration". These people have little to no civil rights. So 5000 years is not much of an advancement, correct?
I'll take your concession that it's an advancement. Even if it doesn't meet your pretentiously high expectations.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:11 am
I'm not yet convinced.
Of course. That's why your cynicism is misplaced. You think the past was better than the future.
There's a word for that...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactionary