Philosophy undermines truth

For all things philosophical.

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Will Bouwman
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Will Bouwman »

Anyway Skepdick, since we have them, let's look at the other
Main signs of autism
Common signs of autism in adults include:
  • getting very anxious about social situations
Haven't seen you in a social situation, but given the amount of time you spend on this forum, added to what must be a busy life as a policeman, computer spud, husband, father, firearms trainer and businessman, I don't suppose many people do.
  • finding it hard to make friends or preferring to be on your own
Don't think you'll find many people on this forum that you have easily made friends with.
  • seeming blunt, rude or not interested in others without meaning to
Have to give you a pass on this one; I am confident you are deliberately obnoxious.
  • finding it hard to say how you feel
Another pass. Who am I to say how you feel?
  • having the same routine every day and getting very anxious if it changes
Again, given the amount of time you spend here, it does suggest compulsive behaviour.
I'm not a doctor, but you are definitely on the spectrum. No doubt I am too, but there's clearwater between us.
Age
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Age »

Skepdick wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 7:04 am
Age wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 11:34 pm Do as you want "skepdick". you have CERTAINLY FAILED to back up and support your 'CLAIM here.
No, I haven't. I can't fail at something I haven't even bother to attempt.
SO, you want to come here and CLAIM that 'philosophy undermines truth' YET you have NOT even bothered to back up and support 'THIS CLAIM' here.
Skepdick wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 7:04 am
Age wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 11:34 pm The ONLY 'thing' you are PROVING here is just how much and how often you TWIST and DISTORT 'things' around while ATTEMPTING to ARGUE or FIGHT for what you BELIEVE is true.
If you think I am trying to "prove" anything you've certainly misunderstood the OP. Try again.
Okay, so are you now SAYING that you are NOT even 'trying to' prove YOUR CLAIM here.
Skepdick wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 7:04 am It's certainly true that you keep twisting and distorting my words and then you keep blaming it on me.
Will you provide ACTUAL PROOF WHERE this ALLEGATION has EVER HAPPENED?

If yes, then GREAT. We can PROCEED, and DISCUSS.

But if no, then WHY NOT?
Skepdick
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Skepdick »

Will Bouwman wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:12 pm Anyway Skepdick, since we have them, let's look at the other
Main signs of autism
Common signs of autism in adults include:
  • getting very anxious about social situations
Haven't seen you in a social situation, but given the amount of time you spend on this forum, added to what must be a busy life as a policeman, computer spud, husband, father, firearms trainer and businessman, I don't suppose many people do.
  • finding it hard to make friends or preferring to be on your own
Don't think you'll find many people on this forum that you have easily made friends with.
  • seeming blunt, rude or not interested in others without meaning to
Have to give you a pass on this one; I am confident you are deliberately obnoxious.
  • finding it hard to say how you feel
Another pass. Who am I to say how you feel?
  • having the same routine every day and getting very anxious if it changes
Again, given the amount of time you spend here, it does suggest compulsive behaviour.
I'm not a doctor, but you are definitely on the spectrum. No doubt I am too, but there's clearwater between us.
You know what's compulsive behaviour...

When I actually enforce the supposed rules of the game (as the story has been told) and dig up the contradictions in everybody's philosophy then every philosopher suddenly defaults to playing online psychologist and trying to pin on me some dysfunction.

The practical unsatisfiability of non-contradiction and the futility of philosophy as telling non-contradictory stories is the whole damn point!
It's precisely the rejection of non-contradiction which enables the expression of the full range of human emotions and enables bonding. Until then everybody is walking on eggshells - not saying how they feel or what they really think afraid not to be caught in a contradiction by the non-contradiction police. Philosophy is actively harmful to psychological safety!

If doing Philosophy (as it's currently practiced; and as I am currently mimicking and mocking) makes it seem as if I am on the spectrum, maybe your diagnosis would change if i stopped doing Philosophy?

Indeed, it's a peculiar statistic as to how difficult I find it forming friendships with philosophers, when I don't have this problem with humans in general. Could it be the game and not the player that's broken?

You were so close though ;)

Where would you say the game of "trying to get reality right" for thousands of years falls on the spectrum of "compulsive behaviour" exactly?
Last edited by Skepdick on Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Age
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Age »

Will Bouwman wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 7:56 am
Age wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 2:04 am
Will Bouwman wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:52 pmThere are any number of possible stories that will account for the words on this forum attributed to Age.
Are you BRAVE ENOUGH to provide just ONE example?
Did you read the very next sentence before writing the above?
I can NOT recall, but probably NOT.

Do you usually read following sentences before writing what you do?

Also I was referring to ACTUAL examples, which would be ACTUALLY POSSIBLE, AFTER CLARITY HAD ALREADY BEEN SOUGHT.

Otherwise, absolutely ANY one could just SAY and CLAIM that there could be ANY number of, or even an infinite, possibilities in regards to absolutely ANY 'thing'. BUT, WITH the MORE CLARITY GAINED, the LESS POSSIBILITIES ARISE.
Will Bouwman wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 7:56 am
Will Bouwman wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:52 pm Hopefully avoiding any charge of "over-indexing on the “challenging” part", it is conceivable that you are some AI project being run by someone whose computer has a faulty caps lock...
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Dontaskme
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Dontaskme »

All truth claims are wrong.

And all wrongs are right.
Will Bouwman
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Will Bouwman »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:44 am
Will Bouwman wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:12 pm...given the amount of time you spend here, it does suggest compulsive behaviour.
I'm not a doctor, but you are definitely on the spectrum. No doubt I am too, but there's clearwater between us.
You know what's compulsive behaviour...

When I actually enforce the supposed rules of the game (as the story has been told) and dig up the contradictions in everybody's philosophy then every philosopher suddenly defaults to playing online psychologist and trying to pin on me some dysfunction.
With my online psychologist hat on, let me tell you that is not what I call compulsive behaviour. But then people often look silly if they pretend to know more about a subject than they actually do, pick one feature they've heard of, extend it to every practitioner and believe that makes them an expert.
Skepdick wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:44 amIt's precisely the rejection of non-contradiction which enables the expression of the full range of human emotions and enables bonding. Until then everybody is walking on eggshells - not saying how they feel or what they really think afraid not to be caught in a contradiction by the non-contradiction police. Philosophy is actively harmful to psychological safety!
Okie-dokie. You have made up a story according to which all philosophers think Aristotle's rules are logic are to be enforced on a supine population, and the bad philosophers are making everyone's life a misery.
Skepdick wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:44 amYou were so close though ;)
Is autistic conspiracy nut closer?
Will Bouwman
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Will Bouwman »

Age wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:35 am
Will Bouwman wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 7:56 amDid you read the very next sentence before writing the above?
I can NOT recall, but probably NOT.

Do you usually read following sentences before writing what you do?
Yes. It's one way that I can limit making a complete arse of myself. You should try it.
Age
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Age »

Will Bouwman wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 11:46 am
Sculptor wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 10:34 amThen you will never know the truth. Would you say that about yourself?
Yep.
Here we have ANOTHER example of ANOTHER COMPLETE CONTRADICTION.

What we have here is ANOTHER example of ANOTHER one 'trying to' CLAIM that 'the truth' can NOT be KNOWN, while at the EXACT SAME time EXPRESSING the CLAIM as though 'it' IS the one and ONLY 'ACTUAL TRUTH'.

See, what these ones, back in those days, had NOT YET COME TO RECOGNIZE and NOTICE is the ABSOLUTE ABSURDITY it was to 'try to' CLAIM either that 'the truth' can NEVER BE KNOWN or that there is NO 'truth', or both.
Will Bouwman wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 11:46 am
Sculptor wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 10:34 amActually the basic three categories are "belief", "truth as correspondence" and "truth as coherence", with their own sub divisions.
They are VERY useful, very particularly useful. And help us unpack unwarranted truths.
Truth and belief are completely different, without any necessary connection, in my book. The problem with any correspondence theory of truth remains that all theories are underdetermined. As for coherence being any guide, as the old saying goes, the difference between truth and fiction, is that fiction has to make sense. Not strictly true, but I'm sure you get the gist.
ONCE AGAIN, it was ONLY when 'these ones' came to FULLY COMPREHEND and REALIZE what ACTUALLY MAKES 'truth', (and even 'right'), what 'they', literally, ARE, EXACTLY, THEN 'this' WAS WHEN 'we' COULD and DID MOVE ALONG and PROGRESSED FROM here.

But the GREAT examples of BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS being displayed here PROVIDED, IRREFUTABLE, PROOF of WHY it took SO LONG for human beings, on a whole, TO PROGRESS.
Age
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Age »

attofishpi wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 12:46 pm
Skepdick wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 12:45 pm
attofishpi wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 12:41 pm Skeppy, you seem to think definitions of words can be changed to suit whatever your deem necessary...for whatever reason you require.
That's true.

And?
..it renders words pointless, redundant bollocks. (apart from your POV)
"skepdick" HAS TO 'achieve' in making words and definitions absolutely 'pointless', as doing so is the only way that "skepdick" could support 'it's' CLAIM here.
Skepdick
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Skepdick »

Will Bouwman wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:48 am With my online psychologist hat on, let me tell you that is not what I call compulsive behaviour.
With your hat on you forgot to answer my question: Where on the spectrum of compulsive behaviour do you place the game of "trying to get reality right"?
Will Bouwman wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:48 am But then people often look silly if they pretend to know more about a subject than they actually do, pick one feature they've heard of, extend it to every practitioner and believe that makes them an expert.
What would an expertise in story-telling even look like? Are you alluding to that "getting reeality right" compulsion again?
Will Bouwman wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:48 am Okie-dokie. You have made up a story according to which all philosophers think Aristotle's rules are logic are to be enforced on a supine population, and the bad philosophers are making everyone's life a misery.
It's hardly about Aristotle. Trying to get reality right is exactly the same game.

Arguments.
Counter-arguments.

Evidence.
Counter-evidence.

It's all the same silly game - nit-picking the stories, without ever attempting to contextualise the difference between a good and a bad story.
Will Bouwman wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:48 am
Skepdick wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:44 amYou were so close though ;)
Is autistic conspiracy nut closer?
You are going to run out of pejoratives before you get to that story right...
Age
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Age »

Will Bouwman wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:31 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 4:19 pm...truth and belief are used interchangeably...
Not by everybody.
Sculptor wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 4:19 pm- that is why it is so important for philosophy to examine the ideas.
A statement such as:
I know gravity is a force that causes things to fall. is set against:
I believe gravity is a force that causes things to fall.
What can we take from the meanings?
Well, we know that things fall. We also know that they fall in predictable ways. We know that something is causing them to fall. Whatever causes things to fall is called gravity, but we don't know what it is.
But 'you' just TOLD 'us' that 'gravity' is the word used to refer to 'that', which causes the complete MISNOMER 'things to fall'.

Besides the very BASIC Fact that 'things falling' ONLY happens to those with VERY LIMITED or CLOSED VIEWING and THINKING, what ACTUALLY CAUSES 'things' to re/act the way they do is ALREADY KNOWN.
Will Bouwman wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:31 pm So we are free to believe anything we like about the cause of gravity, because it will make no difference to what we know about the effects.
What a Truly DISTORTED and DISTURBED WAY of LOOKING AT and SEEING 'things'.
Will Bouwman
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Will Bouwman »

Oops
Last edited by Will Bouwman on Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Will Bouwman
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Will Bouwman »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:04 pmAre you alluding to that "getting reeality right" compulsion again?
It has clearly slipped your mind: all stories are underdetermined.
So, we have forgetful, autistic conspiracy nut.
Skepdick wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:04 pmYou are going to run out of pejoratives before you get to that story right...
Why? Do they all apply to you?
Age
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Age »

Will Bouwman wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:50 am
Age wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:35 am
Will Bouwman wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 7:56 amDid you read the very next sentence before writing the above?
I can NOT recall, but probably NOT.

Do you usually read following sentences before writing what you do?
Yes. It's one way that I can limit making a complete arse of myself. You should try it.
LOL

you 'write', THEN 'further read', AND THEN 'delete' If you think doing so will help you.

AND if you HAD 'further read', BEFORE you wrote what you did here, then you would have SEEN HOW I NEVER made ANY so-called 'arse of myself", let alone a COMPLETE 'one', and WOULD HAVE RECOGNIZED EXACTLY WHO is making WHAT "out of themselves" here.
Skepdick
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Re: Philosophy undermines truth

Post by Skepdick »

Will Bouwman wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:36 pm
Skepdick wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:04 pmAre you alluding to that "getting reeality right" compulsion again?
It has clearly slipped your mind: all stories are underdetermined.
So, we have forgetful, autistic conspiracy nut.
Of all the equally under-determined stories you could have told it’s peculiar why you chose this one 🤷‍♂️

I mean the phrase “conspiracy nut” is all your work.

Philosophers are far too disorganised to coordinate a fuck in a whore house let alone a conspiracy. But maybe you know something I don’t?
Will Bouwman wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:36 pm
Skepdick wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:04 pmYou are going to run out of pejoratives before you get to that story right...
Why? Do they all apply to you?
Do they? How would I determine that?
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