Well then, determine a better story.Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:30 pmYeah... What causes objets with mass to attract each other?Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:29 pmThat's instrumentalism for you. Much better to keep asking philosophical questions like 'What causes gravity?'
The curvature of spacetime causes it.
That's the least underdetermined story so far.
Philosophy undermines truth
- attofishpi
- Posts: 10012
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
- Location: Orion Spur
- Contact:
Re: Philosophy undermines truth
-
- Posts: 601
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:17 pm
Re: Philosophy undermines truth
It is just as underdetermined as rival theories like loop quantum gravity and string theory. Einstein's field equations are consistent with his story that spacetime is a malleable substance that is warped by mass, that is the only evidence we have that spacetime is in fact a malleable substance that is warped by mass.
Re: Philosophy undermines truth
Which goes to show you keep moving the goalposts on the criteria for underdeterminacy.Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:49 pmIt is just as underdetermined as rival theories like loop quantum gravity and string theory. Einstein's field equations are consistent with his story that spacetime is a malleable substance that is warped by mass, that is the only evidence we have that spacetime is in fact a malleable substance that is warped by mass.
-
- Posts: 601
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:17 pm
Re: Philosophy undermines truth
No, it really goes go show that you don't understand model selection.
The determination of "betterness" according to whatever criteria.
-
- Posts: 601
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:17 pm
Re: Philosophy undermines truth
Re: Philosophy undermines truth
I understand determination. Choice.Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:20 pm Which shows again that you don't understand underdetermination.
Under or over determination seems relative.
-
- Posts: 601
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:17 pm
Re: Philosophy undermines truth
Right. Well find out what underdetermination means, and if you care to, get back to me. I can't be arsed to argue with someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:25 pmI understand determination. Choice.Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:20 pm Which shows again that you don't understand underdetermination.
Under or over determination seems relative.
Re: Philosophy undermines truth
Right well, find out what the root of the word "underdetermination" is; then find out what it means and get back to me.Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:29 pmRight. Well find out what underdetermination means, and if you care to, get back to me. I can't be arsed to argue with someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:25 pmI understand determination. Choice.Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:20 pm Which shows again that you don't understand underdetermination.
Under or over determination seems relative.
I can't be arsed to waste my time going back and forth with somebody who doesn't even understand what it means to determine something.
-
- Posts: 601
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:17 pm
Re: Philosophy undermines truth
A Nazi prescribes. I am describing.
It's very much how language works.
In the philosophy of science, underdetermination or the underdetermination of theory by data (sometimes abbreviated UTD) is the idea that evidence available to us at a given time may be insufficient to determine what beliefs we should hold in response to it.
In both cases we are dealing with determination. Surprise! Surprise!Overdetermination occurs when a single-observed effect is determined by multiple causes, any one of which alone would be sufficient to account for ("determine") the effect.
Underdetermination.
Overdetermination.
-
- Posts: 601
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:17 pm
Re: Philosophy undermines truth
Finally? You have the memory of a gold fish.
Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 11:02 amIs it? How did you determine that given the alternative? Overdetermination.
If you have determied that ALL stories are underdetermined then it's not possible to determine that any stories are overdetermined.
- attofishpi
- Posts: 10012
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
- Location: Orion Spur
- Contact:
-
- Posts: 601
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:17 pm
Re: Philosophy undermines truth
Duh!
Once you reject Cartesian grade scepticism, you can skip along with your preferred story and accept the evidence presented to you in that context. So for example, in my world view, and no doubt yours, it is not the case that 'the world is flat' and 'the world is an oblate sphere' are equally underdetermined. There is way more evidence to demonstrate that the world is the latter, which, as your research will inform you, means it is overdetermined.Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:46 amIf you accept Cartesian grade scepticism, then the hypothesis that you are being deceived and everything you experience is the product of an evil demon, becomes a working hypothesis. There is no conceivable experiment you could conduct that could falsify such an idea, making it underdetermined and therefore, every other idea as well.