Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

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Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

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Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 am
OF COURSE 'this' is VERY GOOD to 'you', "dontaskme", 'you', like "eodnhoj7", BOTH BELIEVE that 'everything' IS 'nothing' AND 'nothing' IS 'everything', and will say just about ANY 'thing' to back up and support this ALREADY STRONGLY HELD ONTO BELIEF of 'yours'
I can't speak for 'eod' but I'm assuming the posts are of a nondual context, so I'm inclined to undertstand them as presented in that context..
And yes, it is my belief, that reality is nondual, and that it is the fundamental underpinning of what constitutes all of reality.
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 amSo, IF the 'self' ONLY exists as a 'mentally constructed illusion', (which I have NEVER NOT disagreed with by the way), then WHO or WHAT IS 'mentally constructing this illusion' "dontaskme"?
Consciousness is.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 1:21 pm Mind is the only frame of reference.
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 amYET NOT a one of 'you', posters, here have an ABSOLUTE CLUE nor IDEA as to what the 'Mind' IS, EXACTLY.
No one knows what consciousness is. . in which ''thought'' is but an appearance. However, it seems this mind is the only frame of reference, which can relate only to itself, as a self sustaining, self perpetuating, automatic feedback loop, that apparently works very well creating a real sense of identity and autonomy, apparently.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 1:21 pm Mind can only refer to itself. There is no other self.
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 amBUT, 'you' just through TELLING 'us' that there IS NOT ACTUAL 'self'.
Self is a belief, it's a thought, arising in awareness, it's awareness aware of awareness. It's an apparent illusion.

Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 amSo, what is 'it' going to be here? Is there A 'self' and NOT 'other' 'self', OR, does 'the self' exist ONLY as a 'mentally constructed illusion', "dontaskme".
The 'self' exists as a known conceptual character, as in a nightly dream. Ask yourself, does the 'character' appearing in a nightly dream exist Age? ..and there's your answer.

Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 am'you' OBVIOUSLY can NOT have 'this' BOTH WAYS and be right AND correct.
Self and No Self are the same One Self. So yes, both have to exist at the exact same time to be known conceptually in the mind of 'thought'. The concept 'both' and yet 'neither' means a thing and it's opposite are not contradictions, but rather superpositions.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 1:21 pm You are consciousness/unconscious binary. Meaning, You are and you are not, both, and yet neither.
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 amREALLY?

And 'you' are BOTH and YET NEITHER who and/or what, EXACTLY?
Yes, really.

Who and what?..insert a concept.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 1:21 pm "Behind what is named, there is the unnameable."
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 amBUT 'It' has ALREADY BEEN NAMED.

'you', the 'human being self' known here as "dontaskme", have just NOT YET COME-TO-RECOGNIZE 'this' Fact.

And, this IS BECAUSE thee One, 'behind what is named', has NOT YET INFORMED 'you', human beings here, YET.

See, this One just WAITS, patiently, for 'you', human beings, to COME-TO-LEARN and UNDERSTAND these sort of 'things' FOR and BY "your" 'selves'.
Naming the unnameable is like identifying yourself as an image of the imageless. There is no image of you except as a character in a dream..or in a photograph. Notice you have no image of yourself, you cannot see who or what is seeing you.
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Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

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Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:55 am
AND, 'superpositions' are 'what', EXACTLY, to 'you', "dontaskme"?
Image

Another example of superposition is 'unconsciousness' and 'consciousness' are both the exact same stateless state. Both states just differ in appearance that's all. But the apparent difference is pure illusion.

Another example of superposition is to think about yourself as an adult thinking about what you looked like as a child. You can't look at yourself as a child anymore because that child does not exist except as an image in a still freeze framed photograph, in other words, that child only exists as a ''thought'' in the here and now.

In reality, you cannot take a snapshot of the real unchanging you. You can only identify with the you that you think you are, because the you is always appearing and disappearing, you are transient, temporal, and ever-changing, like a mirage.
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Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

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Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:55 am'you' ARE STILL SO LOST and CONFUSED that 'you' can NOT even SEE and RECOGNIZE THE 'name' that 'you' ARE PLACING UPON what 'you' CALL 'the unnameable'
No, there is no confusion or the sense of being lost. When one can think back in time to a place where one had no name. I can use the method I call 'time travelling' that can only be known in the eternal now by looking back at a picture of myself lying in my mothers womb, knowing only in the here and now, that in that picture, there appears to be a 'me' that is simply an image of the imageless, because I can simultaneously know right here and now, in this eternal present, that I no longer exist as a baby in the womb. So it's like was I ever really a baby in the womb? or was that image of 'me' just a ''thought'' appearing in the only place where I can possibly happen, right here, in the eternal now.

I can know now that I am the nameless, and that I the nameless was given a name by my parents, and that I didn't give myself a name. So then I became identified with the name, I developed a concept of 'me', via the capacity to identify with the name, aka as being nothing but the illusion of 'me', a seeming phenomena where I had the sense of a separate autonomy by literally identifying with my name. I literally became conscious of myself as a concept in my conception I believed was real, albeit illusory, because in essence, I can also know I am just a temporal transient appearance of what must already exist forever without beginning nor end.

So in essence at the fundamental absolute level, not the human level. I am both transient, temporal and eternal, yet neither.

Sorry I'm waffling, but it takes a long time to explain these things. :wink: :)
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Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

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Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:55 am
BUT a so-called 'beginningless and endless Existence' is NOT absurd. This is BECAUSE Existence, Itself, NEVER begins, and NEVER ended.

Existence IS ALWAYS, (and it could be said IN ALL WAYS, as well).
But it is absurd when there is the mistaken belief that I have been born and I will die. Then finding out through self inquiry that the I who has apparently been born and will die does not actually exist. That's the absurdity I am talking about.


Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:55 amBut 'concepts' ARE REAL. So, WHY do 'you' SAY and CLAIM that 'concepts' ARE NOT REAL, or ARE ILLUSORY?
They are only real as they are known to be through belief only.

No belief, no real concept.

In fact, concepts are both real and unreal, and yet neither.

To know real is to simultaneously know unreal...both concepts have to exist as the exact same time in superposition. This is the law of Non-Contradiction.
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Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

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Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:55 amAlso, and VERY LAUGHINGLY, WHY 'ought' I refrain from accusing "others" of 'having beliefs', WHEN 'they' HAVE BELIEFS?

Or, are 'you' now 'trying to' IMPLY that "eodnhoj7" does NOT 'HAVE ANY BELIEFS AT ALL?
I have no idea if eodnhoj7 has any beliefs. You are the one who keeps mentioning the word belief in your responses.

Until one actually states in their writing that they hold to a specific belief, and physically write the words ''I believe this'' about their message..then there is no point in just assuming the person HAS or is believing something about what they are writing about to be their actual belief.

I have never seen eodnhoj7 use the word 'BELIEF' or say 'this is what I believe', in any of the posts that are being presented here, so to me, it's not worth assuming that eodnhoj7 has beliefs, just as you yourself AGE have on many occasions informed others here that are reading the forum, that you have no beliefs.
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Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 am
OF COURSE 'this' is VERY GOOD to 'you', "dontaskme", 'you', like "eodnhoj7", BOTH BELIEVE that 'everything' IS 'nothing' AND 'nothing' IS 'everything', and will say just about ANY 'thing' to back up and support this ALREADY STRONGLY HELD ONTO BELIEF of 'yours'
I can't speak for 'eod' but I'm assuming the posts are of a nondual context, so I'm inclined to undertstand them as presented in that context..
And yes, it is my belief, that reality is nondual, and that it is the fundamental underpinning of what constitutes all of reality.
OBVIOUSLY ALL IS One, or 'nondual' if you like.

There is absolutely NOTHING that could REFUTE 'this'.

Thee, or thy, One IS ALL-THERE-IS. BUT, this does NOT mean that the conceptually made up word 'nothing' NOR 'everything' and the definitions for those TWO words IS the EXACT SAME. That is; the conceptual made up, DIFFERENT, DEFINITIONS for those TWO DIFFERENT words MEAN that those ARE DEFINED AS TWO DIFFERENT, or SEPARATE, 'things', which OBVIOUSLY EXIST in 'thought' or 'concept' ONLY.

BUT it IS THROUGH these CONCEPTS or THOUGHTS how 'you', human beings, come to EVOLVE TO ONE DAY COMPREHENDING and UNDERSTANDING, FULLY, ALL-THERE-IS.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 amSo, IF the 'self' ONLY exists as a 'mentally constructed illusion', (which I have NEVER NOT disagreed with by the way), then WHO or WHAT IS 'mentally constructing this illusion' "dontaskme"?
Consciousness is.
GREAT. So, here we HAVE the 'one' here known as "dontaskme" providing a THIRD DIFFERENT NAME for what "dontaskme" ALSO CLAIMS IS 'unnameable'.
Dontaskme wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 1:21 pm Mind is the only frame of reference.
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 amYET NOT a one of 'you', posters, here have an ABSOLUTE CLUE nor IDEA as to what the 'Mind' IS, EXACTLY.
No one knows what consciousness is. . in which ''thought'' is but an appearance. [/quote]

LOL If this is what you BELIEVE is true, then this IMPLIES that 'you' KNOW EVERY 'thing'.

How do 'you', supposedly, KNOW that there is NOT 'one thing' that KNOWS what 'consciousness' is?

Are 'you' here 'TRYING TO' imply that the 'KNOWER' or 'CONSCIOUSNESS', Itself, does NOT KNOW what just 'consciousness' is?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am However, it seems this mind
WHAT 'mind'?

The 'one' that is sometimes SAID and CLAIMED that 'you', human beings, HAVE and/or POSSESS?

The 'one' that is sometimes SAID and CLAIMED that 'you', "dontaskme", HAS and/or POSSESS?

Or, some OTHER 'mind', like some 'Universal mind', or 'the mind of a goat', for example?

WHEN 'you' SAY 'this mind', then WHAT 'mind' are 'you' REFERRING TO, EXACTLY?

And, what IS 'that mind', EXACTLY?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am is the only frame of reference, which can relate only to itself, as a self sustaining, self perpetuating, automatic feedback loop, that apparently works very well creating a real sense of identity and autonomy, apparently.
GREAT. So, WHEN you SAY and CLAIM 'this mind' can relate ONLY to 'itself', could you be providing a FOURTH NAME here to 'that', which CLAIM is 'unnameable'?

If yes, then you have ALREADY NAME the so-called and alleged 'unnameable' with the NAMES:

'unnameable'
'knower'
'consciousness', and now maybe
'mind' or 'this mind'.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 1:21 pm Mind can only refer to itself. There is no other self.
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 amBUT, 'you' just through TELLING 'us' that there IS NOT ACTUAL 'self'.
Self is a belief,
So, IS 'There is NO self' A BELIEF, and A BELIEF of 'yours', 'the self' known here as "dontaskme".
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am it's a thought, arising in awareness, it's awareness aware of awareness.
Could this 'awareness' word here that refers to a 'thing', which is purported to be aware of awareness' be the FIFTH NAME that you have PROVIDED here for 'that', which you CLAIM is 'unnameable'?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am It's an apparent illusion.
WHO and/or WHAT is 'self' an apparent illusion TO, EXACTLY?

OBVIOUSLY, it could NOT be to 'you', BECAUSE 'you' are 'the self' here known as "dontaskme".
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 amSo, what is 'it' going to be here? Is there A 'self' and NOT 'other' 'self', OR, does 'the self' exist ONLY as a 'mentally constructed illusion', "dontaskme".
The 'self' exists as a known conceptual character, as in a nightly dream.
TO WHO and/or WHAT, EXACTLY?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am Ask yourself, does the 'character' appearing in a nightly dream exist Age? ..and there's your answer.
PLEASE do NOT TELL me to 'Ask "myself" ANY 'thing' here.

I KNOW FULLY, ABSOLUTELY, and IRREFUTABLY what 'you' are SO DESPERATELY 'TRYING TO' talk ABOUT and refer TO, EXACTLY.

I even KNOW the EXACT WORDS that can EXPLAIN ALL-OF-THIS in a COMPLETELY and UTTERLY IRREFUTABLE WAY. Can you COMPREHEND the CONSEQUENCES of 'this'?

Also, and by the way, just SAYING and CLAIMING, 'The 'self' exists as a known conceptual character, as in a nightly dream, AND THEN proceeding to TELL "ANOTHER" 'self' to, Ask "your" 'self', (which IS ABSOLUTE ABSURDITY AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL POSSIBLE itself), does the 'character' appearing in a nightly dream exist?

What 'you', "dontaskme", which CLAIMS that is A 'self', and MORE STUPIDLY CLAIMS that 'it' IS 'its' OWN 'self', can 'WIN' 'an argument' and/or HAVE 'your' BELIEFS ACCEPTED and AGREED UPON WHEN 'you' ASK TOTALLY STUPID 'things' as 'you' ARE DOING here.

When 'self' is talked ABOUT BY 'you', human beings, it is IN RELATION TO the 'thoughts' IN THE 'waking state', and NOT TO 'nightly dreams'. WHICH ARE OBVIOUSLY TWO VERY DIFFERENT 'things'.

So, WHAT HAPPENS in 'nightly dreams' does NOT necessarily REFLECT on WHAT HAPPENS in 'waking thought'.

Although there is NO ACTUAL 'self', in the sense that 'you', human beings, go on about, CONTINUOUSLY, but to PROVE 'this' IRREFUTABLY True "dontaskme" 'you' are going to HAVE TO DO a LOT better than 'you' are here.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 am'you' OBVIOUSLY can NOT have 'this' BOTH WAYS and be right AND correct.
Self and No Self are the same One Self.
So, THERE IS A Self, correct?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am So yes, both have to exist at the exact same time to be known conceptually in the mind of 'thought'.
1. 'The 'mind of thought' is a Truly IDIOTIC and ILLOGICAL term. It is just some 'thing' 'you' have made up, SAID, and CLAIMED here under the PRESUMPTION that 'it' actually means SOME 'thing'.

2. How could ANY of NO 'thing', which obviously, includes, NO 'Self, EXIST?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am The concept 'both' and 'neither' means a thing and it's opposite are not contradictions, but rather superpositions.
To 'you' MAYBE, but NOT to 'us'.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 1:21 pm You are consciousness/unconscious binary. Meaning, You are and you are not, both, and yet neither.
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 amREALLY?

And 'you' are BOTH and YET NEITHER who and/or what, EXACTLY?
Yes, really.
So, ONCE AGAIN, 'you' are COMPLETELY and UTTERLY UNKNOWING of what 'you' are ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT here.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am Who and what?..insert a concept.
Which you could NOT do here.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 1:21 pm "Behind what is named, there is the unnameable."
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 amBUT 'It' has ALREADY BEEN NAMED.

'you', the 'human being self' known here as "dontaskme", have just NOT YET COME-TO-RECOGNIZE 'this' Fact.

And, this IS BECAUSE thee One, 'behind what is named', has NOT YET INFORMED 'you', human beings here, YET.

See, this One just WAITS, patiently, for 'you', human beings, to COME-TO-LEARN and UNDERSTAND these sort of 'things' FOR and BY "your" 'selves'.
Naming the unnameable is like identifying yourself as an image of the imageless.
It is absolutely NOTHING like 'it'.

CLAIMING that 'you' KNOW of SOME 'thing', which is, supposedly, 'unnameable', is just CONTRADICTORY and ABSURD in the EXTREME.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am There is no image of you except as a character in a dream..or in a photograph.
REALLY?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:52 am Notice you have no image of yourself, you cannot see who or what is seeing you.
I have ALREADY EXPLAINED here to 'you' HOW this IS False, and HOW to LOOK AT and SEE ALL 'things' here.
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Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

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Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 11:19 am
OBVIOUSLY ALL IS One, or 'nondual' if you like.

There is absolutely NOTHING that could REFUTE 'this'.
👍🏿

Sorry about the colour. I literally just pull everything I think I know out of my own arse. :wink:
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Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:20 am
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:55 am
AND, 'superpositions' are 'what', EXACTLY, to 'you', "dontaskme"?
Image

Another example of superposition is 'unconsciousness' and 'consciousness' are both the exact same stateless state. Both states just differ in appearance that's all. But the apparent difference is pure illusion.
BUT TO WHO and/or WHAT do 'those states', apparently, differ in APPEARANCE TO, EXACTLY?

AND, WHO and/or WHAT KNOWS, FOR SURE, WITHOUT ANY DOUBT AT ALL that 'those APPEARANCES' ARE so-called 'pure illusion'.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:20 am Another example of superposition is to think about yourself as an adult thinking about what you looked like as a child. You can't look at yourself as a child anymore because that child does not exist except as an image in a still freeze framed photograph, in other words, that child only exists as a ''thought'' in the here and now.

In reality, you cannot take a snapshot of the real unchanging you.
So, to 'you', does the 'you' exist or not?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:20 am You can only identify with the you that you think you are, because the you is always appearing and disappearing, you are transient, temporal, and ever-changing, like a mirage.
So, to 'you', the 'you' is the REAL 'unchanging you', BUT 'you' ARE, REALLY, 'ever-changing'. Are 'you' ABSOLUTELY SURE of 'this'?

Oh, and by the way, what are 'superpositions', or what is 'superposition', to 'you', EXACTLY? 'you' have NOT YET ANSWERED this QUESTION.
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Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

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Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 11:58 am
Oh, and by the way, what are 'superpositions', or what is 'superposition', to 'you', EXACTLY? 'you' have NOT YET ANSWERED this QUESTION.
Superposition is both 'unconsciousness' and 'consciousness' being the exact same stateless state. Both states just differ in appearance that's all. One is knowing and the other is not-knowing. But the apparent difference, is pure illusion.

I know this because I am the only source of this knowing. I am this knowing that is not-knowing this knowing.
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Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

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A lot of people might think what I am saying is just a meaningless bunch of fancy word salad, just a mixed up mumbo jumbo play of words so to speak, and they would be right, simply because all words are made of just SOUND, heard as words with meaning, that are unique to the human animal.

And what is SOUND but an appearance of silence. What is SOUNDS meaning, but a MEANINGFUL appearance of the same silence.

What is silence, but nothing at all, nothing there IN SILENCE to understand or make sense of, or to know about, except to believe.

That's all folks.
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Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

Post by Dontaskme »

Knowing is primary and fundamentally sourced from within one's own self, and this knowing is a self-evident self-referential knowing without doubt or error. As this knowing, the only knowing there is, can never be unknown once known. Paradoxically, this knowing cannot know how it is knowing, the HOW is unknown, and therefore, can and does know the concept of un-known.

This knowing self is sourced only within itself and sounds very much like solipsism, but that's because knowing cannot know what it is like to experience the external world it knows, it can only project the external world it knows from within itself. The external world is not sensed, it is projected from within the source of knowing, you are that knowing. Therefore, the external world must always exist in conjunction with knowing, and could never not exist or be denied, else SOURCE does not exist either..

Source is the emptiness of all things known. Emptiness doesn't have to mean nothingness. What remains of us when we no longer think or feel anything? like in deep dreamless sleep. Emptiness doesn't mean nothing, it just means there is no substance or separation to be found anywhere in the whole of totalities existence.

.
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Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:54 am
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:55 am'you' ARE STILL SO LOST and CONFUSED that 'you' can NOT even SEE and RECOGNIZE THE 'name' that 'you' ARE PLACING UPON what 'you' CALL 'the unnameable'
No, there is no confusion or the sense of being lost.
Okay, but NOT having 'a sense of' some 'thing' does NOT necessarily mean that that 'thing' does NOT exist.

Also, having NO sense of 'being lost' could be a SURE SIGN of being Truly LOST.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:20 am When one can think back in time to a place where one had no name. I can use the method I call 'time travelling' that can only be known in the eternal now by looking back at a picture of myself lying in my mothers womb, knowing only in the here and now, that in that picture, there appears to be a 'me' that is simply an image of the imageless, because I can simultaneously know right here and now, in this eternal present, that I no longer exist as a baby in the womb.
So, 'it' is NOT 'an image of the imageless', BECAUSE that would just be Truly ABSURD to CLAIM, to say the least. What 'it' ACTUALLY IS is 'an image of what USED TO exist, but which does NOT in this current moment of the ETERNAL NOW'.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:54 am So it's like was I ever really a baby in the womb?
Thee 'I', Itself, was NEVER ANY one of those 'things', which 'you', human beings, LABEL and give names to like 'babies'.

The 'baby' in that belly however is just ANOTHER one of those 'i's', also known as human beings.

UNDERSTAND the DIFFERENCE between thee 'I' and the 'i's', and then 'you' WILL ACTUAL PROGRESS HERE, NOW, and thus MOVE FORWARD.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:54 am or was that image of 'me' just a ''thought'' appearing in the only place where I can possibly happen, right here, in the eternal now.
The 'image' was of a physical 'thing', namely a human body, which is OBVIOUSLY NOT 'imageless' AT ALL, NOR NEVER.

The word 'me' just refers to the ALWAYS IMAGELESS, which EXISTS WITHIN a human body.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:54 am I can know now that I am the nameless,
So, 'you', AGAIN, a giving ANOTHER name to the so-called 'nameless' here. This time 'you' ARE calling the so-called 'nameless' 'I', which, if I recall correctly, IS the SIXTH name that 'you' have GIVEN TO the so-called 'nameless'.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:54 am and that I the nameless was given a name by my parents, and that I didn't give myself a name.
Just the word "myself" is ABSOLUTELY and TOTALLY ILLOGICAL, (that is; IF ANY one is Truly INTERESTED and WANTS to DELVE INTO 'this' DEEPLY ENOUGH). As for the rest of what you wrote here, that is ALSO just ILLOGICAL as well.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:54 am So then I became identified with the name, I developed a concept of 'me', via the capacity to identify with the name, aka as being nothing but the illusion of 'me', a seeming phenomena where I had the sense of a separate autonomy by literally identifying with my name. I literally became conscious of myself as a concept in my conception I believed was real, albeit illusory, because in essence, I can also know I am just a temporal transient appearance of what must already exist forever without beginning nor end.
WHEN 'you' LEARN to USE thee 'I' and the 'i' Correctly, then what 'you' are ALLUDING TO WILL BECOME IRREFUTABLE.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:54 am So in essence at the fundamental absolute level, not the human level. I am both transient, temporal and eternal, yet neither.
This IS True FOR thee 'I', the One and ONLY. But NOT FOR the 'i', of which there ARE MANY.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:54 am Sorry I'm waffling, but it takes a long time to explain these things. :wink: :)
That is WHY I am here to LEARN how to communicate BETTER with 'you', human beings.

It can take 'some time' to EXPLAIN 'things'.

As it was once SAID, A split-second of 'enlightenment' can then take a 'lifetime' TO EXPLAIN.

But what I KNOW IS that once one Truly KNOWS what they are TALKING ABOUT, then they can NOT FAIL. As will be SHOWN and PROVED True.
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Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:05 am
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:55 am
BUT a so-called 'beginningless and endless Existence' is NOT absurd. This is BECAUSE Existence, Itself, NEVER begins, and NEVER ended.

Existence IS ALWAYS, (and it could be said IN ALL WAYS, as well).
But it is absurd when there is the mistaken belief that I have been born and I will die.
Well 'I' OBVIOUSLY do NOT have 'this belief', and NEVER have.

But also just AS OBVIOUS is the Fact that ALL the 'i's', that is; 'you', human beings, WERE BORN.

Also, and by the way, having, and especially HOLDING ONTO, ANY and ALL 'mistaken beliefs' IS just PLAIN OLD ABSURD, ALWAYS, well to me anyway.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:54 am Then finding out through self inquiry that the I who has apparently been born and will die does not actually exist. That's the absurdity I am talking about.
Can 'you' STILL REALLY NOT SEE the CONTRADICTIONS and HYPOCRISY here? That is; I do NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, and that is THE ABSURDITY I am TALKING ABOUT.

If 'I' does NOT EXIST, the 'it' can NOT talk ABOUT ANY 'thing'.

Now, OF COURSE the 'i' does NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, but thee 'I', that IS; thee One ALSO KNOWN AS, 'the nameless', 'Consciousness', 'Awareness', 'Self, 'Mind', 'God', 'Spirit', 'Intuition', 'Allah', 'Sage', as well as ALL of the OTHER 'names' DOES EXIST, and ALWAYS EXISTS, ETERNALLY just to BE MORE CLEAR.

Just BECAUSE 'you', human beings, name and label "your" 'selves' as 'I' does NOT necessarily mean that 'you' ARE 'I'. There is ONLY One 'I', but there ARE MANY of 'you', 'i's'.

When 'you', human beings, are 'self' referencing, then to FIT IN, EXACTLY and PERFECTLY HERE in this One ETERNAL NOW, then 'i' IS the Correct WORD and LETTER TO USE.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:05 am
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:55 amBut 'concepts' ARE REAL. So, WHY do 'you' SAY and CLAIM that 'concepts' ARE NOT REAL, or ARE ILLUSORY?
They are only real as they are known to be through belief only.
WHY do 'you' CONSTANTLY 'construct' words into NONSENSICAL and ILLOGICAL sentences?

If 'you' just STOPPED 'TRYING TO' "justify", "rationalize", and/or ATTEMPT to PROVE 'your' OWN BELIEFS here correct, and just STARTED ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS to 'you' OPENLY and Honestly, then 'you' COULD LEARN MORE and ANEW. And, by the way, what 'you' have been 'TRYING TO' CONVEY, EXPRESS, and EXPLAIN here, which I AGREE and KNOW IS IRREFUTABLY True, then 'you' WILL COME-TO-SEE and UNDERSTAND that ALL-OF-THIS can, ACTUALLY, be EXPLAINED, and VERY EASY and VERY SIMPLY, I WILL ADD.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:05 am No belief, no real concept.

In fact, concepts are both real and unreal, and yet neither.
'Concepts', themselves, or 'just thoughts', OBVIOUSLY EXIST, and AS REAL.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:05 am To know real is to simultaneously know unreal...both concepts have to exist as the exact same time in superposition. This is the law of Non-Contradiction.
YET I HAVE POINTED OUT and SHOWN PLENTY of 'your' OWN CONTRADICTIONS here. Although 'you' may NOT HAVE YET SEEN NOR RECOGNIZED ALL of 'them' YET.
Age
Posts: 20201
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:21 am
Age wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:55 amAlso, and VERY LAUGHINGLY, WHY 'ought' I refrain from accusing "others" of 'having beliefs', WHEN 'they' HAVE BELIEFS?

Or, are 'you' now 'trying to' IMPLY that "eodnhoj7" does NOT 'HAVE ANY BELIEFS AT ALL?
I have no idea if eodnhoj7 has any beliefs.
I HAVE. AND "eodnhoj7" has PLENTY. As can be CLEARLY SEEN above here.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:21 am You are the one who keeps mentioning the word belief in your responses.
YES, and BECAUSE of the ABSOLUTE DESTRUCTION BELIEFS CAN, and ARE DOING, to 'the world', in which 'you', people ARE LIVING IN, in the days when this is being written.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:21 am Until one actually states in their writing that they hold to a specific belief, and physically write the words ''I believe this'' about their message..then there is no point in just assuming the person HAS or is believing something about what they are writing about to be their actual belief.
RECOGNIZING WITHIN THE WORDS USED, in spoken or written language, BELIEFS one HAS is EXTREMELY TO SPOT and SEE.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:21 am I have never seen eodnhoj7 use the word 'BELIEF' or say 'this is what I believe', in any of the posts that are being presented here,
Okay.

'you', people, do NOT have to SAY, 'this is what I believe' to EACH and EVERY BELIEF 'you' HAVE to CLEARLY SEE the ACTUAL BELIEFS 'you' ACTUALLY HAVE.

Also, and by the way, sometimes, and depending on what country one lives in, even when one SAYS, 'I believe ...', what they ACTUALLY MEAN IS; 'I am NOT SURE that what 'I believe' is even true or NOT true.

And, at other times, when one CLAIMS that they do NOT believe some 'thing' to be true, the Truth IS they ACTUALLY DO.

What IS NEEDED here is having THE ABILITY to READ BETWEEN THE LINES, as some say and call 'it'.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:21 am so to me, it's not worth assuming that eodnhoj7 has beliefs, just as you yourself AGE have on many occasions informed others here that are reading the forum, that you have no beliefs.
I do NOT SEE HOW the last part of your sentence here RELATES TO the first part.

Would you like to EXPLAIN HOW the two are RELATED?
Age
Posts: 20201
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Reality is Both Meaningful and Meaningless

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 12:20 pm A lot of people might think what I am saying is just a meaningless bunch of fancy word salad, just a mixed up mumbo jumbo play of words so to speak, and they would be right,
A LOT of what 'you' SAY and CLAIM here "dontaskme" would come across as INCOMPREHENSIBLE.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:21 am simply because all words are made of just SOUND, heard as words with meaning, that are unique to the human animal.
But NOT ALL words are made of just SOUND. Take for example these words BEFORE you HERE, NOW. They, OBVIOUSLY, have NOT sound AT ALL.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:21 am And what is SOUND but an appearance of silence.
To me, SOUND is CERTAINLY NOT 'but an appearance of silence' AT ALL.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:21 am What is SOUNDS meaning, but a MEANINGFUL appearance of the same silence.
AGAIN, NOT TO ME.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 8:21 am What is silence, but nothing at all, nothing there IN SILENCE to understand or make sense of, or to know about, except to believe.

That's all folks.
So, do 'you' BELIEVE IN, or OF, the SUPPOSED 'nothing there IN SILENCE'?
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