There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

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PeteOlcott
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There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

Post by PeteOlcott »

We are therefore confronted with a proposition which asserts its own unprovability. 15

14 Every epistemological antinomy can likewise be used for a similar undecidability proof.
(Gödel 1931:40)
Antinomy
...term often used in logic and epistemology, when describing a paradox or
unresolvable contradiction. https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Antinomy

Gödel, Kurt 1931.
On Formally Undecidable Propositions of Principia Mathematica And Related Systems
https://mavdisk.mnsu.edu/pj2943kt/Fall% ... l-1931.pdf

On this basis we define a much more powerful F in a formal system having
its own unprovability operator: ⊬ This eliminates the need for the complexity
of arithmetization and diagonalization.

G := (F ⊬ G) means G is defined to be another name for (F ⊬ G)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_logic_symbols

∃G ∈ F (G := (F ⊬ G))
There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

Within this much more powerful F a proof of G in F requires a sequence
of inference steps in F that prove that they themselves do not exist.
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Agent Smith
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Re: There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

Post by Agent Smith »

Why did ...

Alfonso look up?

Yeah, more or less.

What's more, he kept oooon lookin' up!

Exactamundo!

We must ...

Wir müssen wissen, wir werden wissen!
Skepdick
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Re: There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

Post by Skepdick »

PeteOlcott wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:49 pm Antinomy
...term often used in logic and epistemology, when describing a paradox or
unresolvable contradiction. https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Antinomy
Olcott, you are a fucking idiot.

Antimonies cease to exist the moment you introduce time/change into your formal system.

P ⇒ ¬P ⇒ P ⇒ ¬P ⇒ P ⇒ ¬P ⇒ P ⇒ ¬P ⇒ P ⇒ ¬P ⇒ P ⇒ ¬P ⇒ P ⇒ ¬P

What you call "contradiction" is just oscillation - a state transition. P as it becomes not-P. As it becomes P again.

Mutability vs Immutability is covered in every basic computer science course...

Here's a free one from MIT: https://web.mit.edu/6.005/www/fa15/clas ... utability/
PeteOlcott
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Re: There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

Post by PeteOlcott »

An ignoramus honestly believes that "this sentence is not true"
becomes a truth bearer with the value of true if you just wait a while.
PeteOlcott
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Re: There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

Post by PeteOlcott »

PeteOlcott wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 4:53 pm An ignoramus honestly believes that "this sentence is not true"
becomes a truth bearer with the value of true if you just wait a while.
That the liar paradox is not a truth bearer for two different reasons
does not make it a truth bearer.
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Harbal
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Re: There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

Post by Harbal »

Skepdick wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 10:11 am
Olcott, you are a fucking idiot.
If he don't know by now, I guess he never will. :)
Skepdick
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Re: There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

Post by Skepdick »

Harbal wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 6:32 pm
If he don't know by now, I guess he never will. :)
It's for posterity more than his benifit.
Skepdick
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Re: There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

Post by Skepdick »

PeteOlcott wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 4:53 pm An ignoramus honestly believes that "this sentence is not true"
becomes a truth bearer with the value of true if you just wait a while.
Olcott, you are a fucking idiot.

Is it true or false that this sentence is not a truth-bearer?
PeteOlcott
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Re: There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

Post by PeteOlcott »

PeteOlcott wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 4:56 pm
PeteOlcott wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 4:53 pm An ignoramus honestly believes that "this sentence is not true"
becomes a truth bearer with the value of true if you just wait a while.
That the liar paradox is not a truth bearer for two different reasons
does not make it a truth bearer.
The ignoramus doesn't even understand that questions are not truth bearers.
Skepdick
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Re: There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

Post by Skepdick »

PeteOlcott wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 8:35 pm
PeteOlcott wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 4:56 pm
PeteOlcott wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 4:53 pm An ignoramus honestly believes that "this sentence is not true"
becomes a truth bearer with the value of true if you just wait a while.
That the liar paradox is not a truth bearer for two different reasons
does not make it a truth bearer.
The ignoramus doesn't even understand that questions are not truth bearers.
Olcott, you are fucking idiot.

Every inhabited type is a truth-bearer. Every question whose answer is a Boolean is a truth-bearer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_inhabitation

English: Is the number 4 dvisible by 2?
Mathematics: 4 MOD 2 = 0
Python:

Code: Select all

In [1]: 4 % 2 == 0
Out[1]: True
Answer: True.
PeteOlcott
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Re: There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

Post by PeteOlcott »

PeteOlcott wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 8:35 pm
PeteOlcott wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 4:56 pm
PeteOlcott wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 4:53 pm An ignoramus honestly believes that "this sentence is not true"
becomes a truth bearer with the value of true if you just wait a while.
That the liar paradox is not a truth bearer for two different reasons
does not make it a truth bearer.
The ignoramus doesn't even understand that questions are not truth bearers.
The ignoramus believes that these are merely totally redundant names for
a Declarative Sentence, and there is no difference at all between them.
Declarative Sentence.
Imperative Sentence.
Interrogative Sentence.
Exclamatory Sentence.
Skepdick
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Re: There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

Post by Skepdick »

PeteOlcott wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 10:15 pm
PeteOlcott wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 8:35 pm
PeteOlcott wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 4:56 pm

That the liar paradox is not a truth bearer for two different reasons
does not make it a truth bearer.
The ignoramus doesn't even understand that questions are not truth bearers.
The ignoramus believes that these are merely totally redundant names for
a Declarative Sentence, and there is no difference at all between them.
Declarative Sentence.
Imperative Sentence.
Interrogative Sentence.
Exclamatory Sentence.
Olcott, you are a fucking idiot.

Learn the difference between syntax and semantics.

There is no semantic difference between the declarative sentence "Olcott, you are a fucking idiot!" and the question-answer pair "Olcott, are you a fucking idiot? Yes, you are!"
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Agent Smith
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Re: There exists a G in F that proves its own unprovability in F

Post by Agent Smith »

As far as I can tell, we need to clarify the butter ... er ... I mean Gödel's argument/proof. :mrgreen:

We start with ...

Step 1) G is unprovable in F (The Gödel sentence)

Step 2)

Step 3)

.
.
.

The form

1. Either Paul is a vet or Paul is a flautist
2. Paul is not a flautist
Ergo
3. Paul is vet
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