In The News

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

commonsense
Posts: 5116
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: In The News

Post by commonsense »

mickthinks wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:46 am Image

Mr Lester, who is white, has been charged with shooting Ralph Yarl, 16, who is black, once in the head and once in the arm when he rang the wrong doorbell while picking up his younger brothers.

Image

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65307047
Mr. Lester reportedly saw that the boy was 6 ft tall—an observation he could not make without seeing his victim. After disabling the teenager by shooting him in the head, Lester fired his weapon a second time, even after neutralizing any threat Ralph Yarl might have posed.
User avatar
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 6269
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: In The News

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Oklahoma sheriff reportedly caught on tape talking about murdering journalists, lynching Black people (audio)
Remember folks, there's no such thing as racism any more.
Gary Childress
Posts: 8121
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: In The News

Post by Gary Childress »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:45 pm Remember folks, there's no such thing as racism any more.
Well, there's possibly always going to be some resentment by a few individuals against people of different skin color, gender, ethnic or religious backgrounds, so the question becomes, is the system of a particular country rigged against any particular group? Right now CRT (Critical Race Theory) is predicated on the notion that only a white person can be "racist". That wouldn't be too problematic if it weren't also posited by CRT that people of "color" cannot be "racist". There's always a two-way door there and there needs to be. Sometimes the door might better swing more one way than another. But it's probably not a healthy stance to pursue as an absolute that one can eradicate all "racism". Sometimes "racism" indicates that a person has never truly met a person of another race and connected with them and therefore doesn't recognize their "personhood" or "humanity" or whatever also.

There are a lot of poor whites in the US right now, by the way. I can't speak of other countries. In the Orlando area, there are a lot of homeless white people that I drive by in the streets, in some parts of town it seems like there are more whites standing on street corners begging than people of color. Granted, it's impossible to make everyone 'wealthy' either. So perhaps the Orlando area is as it should be. If there is going to be some sort of spectrum of how wealth is distributed, then every group should probably be represented among it in a way that is reasonably understandable.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
User avatar
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 6269
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: In The News

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:48 pm Right now CRT (Critical Race Theory) is predicated on the notion that only a white person can be "racist".
You haven't read any have you? All you've read is the bullshit descriptions of CRT written by right wing zealots.
Gary Childress
Posts: 8121
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: In The News

Post by Gary Childress »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:07 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:48 pm Right now CRT (Critical Race Theory) is predicated on the notion that only a white person can be "racist".
You haven't read any have you? All you've read is the bullshit descriptions of CRT written by right wing zealots.
OK. Can people of color be "racist", yes or no?
User avatar
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 6269
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: In The News

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:10 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:07 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:48 pm Right now CRT (Critical Race Theory) is predicated on the notion that only a white person can be "racist".
You haven't read any have you? All you've read is the bullshit descriptions of CRT written by right wing zealots.
OK. Can people of color be "racist", yes or no?
Of course they can, what a stupid question.

Now then. You haven't read any CRT works at all have you? You are hoping to just bullshit me, correct?
Gary Childress
Posts: 8121
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: In The News

Post by Gary Childress »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:15 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:10 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:07 pm
You haven't read any have you? All you've read is the bullshit descriptions of CRT written by right wing zealots.
OK. Can people of color be "racist", yes or no?
Of course they can, what a stupid question.

Now then. You haven't read any CRT works at all have you? You are hoping to just bullshit me, correct?
I haven't read any works of CRT. I can only go off what I've read second-hand or what others tell me at this point. I mean, if anyone is capable of being a "minority" regardless of skin color and there should be no discrimination based on skin color, then it sounds fine to me.
User avatar
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 6269
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: In The News

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:24 pm I haven't read any works of CRT. I can only go off what I've read second-hand or what others tell me at this point. I mean, if anyone is capable of being a "minority" regardless of skin color and there should be no discrimination based on skin color, then it sounds fine to me.
Would you base your beliefs about atheism entirely on what Imamnuel Can writes about atheism? I should hope not because IC is a fanatical religious warrior and he sort of believes in atheism as some sort of religion dedicated to being angry at God, which would make atheism a weird and stupid thing to waste a life doing.

But you have accepted similarly absurd descriptions of CRT from people like IC even though what is described is absurd nonsense that nobody with a brain would believe. If you allow hyper-partisan ultra-conservatives like IC to tell you what to believe about progressive causes you will embrace ignorance until such time as you are finally just written off as more puppet than man.
promethean75
Posts: 4932
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:29 pm

Re: In The News

Post by promethean75 »

IC would like to send this one out to u, Gary.
Gary Childress
Posts: 8121
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: In The News

Post by Gary Childress »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:01 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:24 pm I haven't read any works of CRT. I can only go off what I've read second-hand or what others tell me at this point. I mean, if anyone is capable of being a "minority" regardless of skin color and there should be no discrimination based on skin color, then it sounds fine to me.
Would you base your beliefs about atheism entirely on what Imamnuel Can writes about atheism?
What books on CRT have you read?
User avatar
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 6269
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: In The News

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:59 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:01 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:24 pm I haven't read any works of CRT. I can only go off what I've read second-hand or what others tell me at this point. I mean, if anyone is capable of being a "minority" regardless of skin color and there should be no discrimination based on skin color, then it sounds fine to me.
Would you base your beliefs about atheism entirely on what Imamnuel Can writes about atheism?
What books on CRT have you read?
I have formed no strong opinion about CRT, so unless I develop an interest in the area I will not take time out to read a book about it. But I don't get to say yayyy CRET is fucking awesome, or boooo CRT is evilness unless I put actual effort in. Notice how I say neither of those things for this reason.
Gary Childress
Posts: 8121
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: In The News

Post by Gary Childress »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:42 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:59 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:01 pm
Would you base your beliefs about atheism entirely on what Imamnuel Can writes about atheism?
What books on CRT have you read?
I have formed no strong opinion about CRT, so unless I develop an interest in the area I will not take time out to read a book about it. But I don't get to say yayyy CRET is fucking awesome, or boooo CRT is evilness unless I put actual effort in. Notice how I say neither of those things for this reason.
That sounds like a fair way to me for you to approach it. It sounds like you've developed an agnosticism toward it. If that is true, and you have not read anything about CRT, then it seems to me that ought to also prevent you from being able to say that people like IC have an incorrect impression. Assuming IC has read up on CRT (which I believe he claims he has) then there's really not much we can do other than ask an expert or something whether what IC says is true or not.

I'm agnostic about it too. Since I haven't read any texts concerning CRT, all I can do is give my opinions based on what I would consider reasonable or unreasonable were they the positions of CRT. I hope I made it clear in my posts that I do not hold any beliefs regarding CRT other than to say that IF CRT posits that people of color are incapable of being racist, then I would have to have them qualify what they mean by "racist". If they say that it is because only those who have power can be racist, then I can agree with that to whatever extent, however, from my own experience the position of people of color has been improving pretty drastically in the US. It's not completely leveled but there are men of color, women of color, and others in many political and managerial offices, which was not the case when I was young. So things are improving. And with those people of color in power, they too then become capable of being "racist", if they have the power to exercise their opinions.
User avatar
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 6269
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: In The News

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:29 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:42 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:59 pm

What books on CRT have you read?
I have formed no strong opinion about CRT, so unless I develop an interest in the area I will not take time out to read a book about it. But I don't get to say yayyy CRET is fucking awesome, or boooo CRT is evilness unless I put actual effort in. Notice how I say neither of those things for this reason.
That sounds like a fair way to me for you to approach it. It sounds like you've developed an agnosticism toward it. If that is true, and you have not read anything about CRT, then it seems to me that ought to also prevent you from being able to say that people like IC have an incorrect impression. Assuming IC has read up on CRT (which I believe he claims he has) then there's really not much we can do other than ask an expert or something whether what IC says is true or not.
You are badly missing the point here. I hold that people in general are not absurd nonsense spouting idiots. IC's description of CRT is that it is the words of a bunch of absurd nonsense spouting idiots. I can point to other discussions where his description of his enemy's position is that of utter nonsense spouting idiots - in this case I chose atheism as that topic - and I suggest that you bear in mind that IC has a habitual pattern of describing all his foes in terms that can only apply to mentally diseased evildoers.

That is why I consider it irrational to just accept IC's explanation of CRT and just take it as a received truth.
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:29 am I'm agnostic about it too. Since I haven't read any texts concerning CRT, all I can do is give my opinions based on what I would consider reasonable or unreasonable were they the positions of CRT. I hope I made it clear in my posts that I do not hold any beliefs regarding CRT other than to say that IF CRT posits that people of color are incapable of being racist, then I would have to have them qualify what they mean by "racist". If they say that it is because only those who have power can be racist, then I can agree with that to whatever extent, however, from my own experience the position of people of color has been improving pretty drastically in the US. It's not completely leveled but there are men of color, women of color, and others in many political and managerial offices, which was not the case when I was young. So things are improving. And with those people of color in power, they too then become capable of being "racist", if they have the power to exercise their opinions.
I gave you a link to audio of an American sheriff and two buddies reminiscing about good old days when you could take an uppity N word dude and hang him just for being all disrespectful. This has nothing to do with racist assumptions subliminally buried in the institutions of a modern state's power structures, it's direct white supremacism, which hasn't gone away yet.

You turned the conversation to CRT as some sort of counter, I don't know why you made that choice, it is a you problem, as far as I am concerned, we have dismissed this irrelevance now because neither of us is qualified to have a serious discussion about CRT, and I have no need to jump into that pointless discussion.

If you care this much about CRT, you should get out there and find out from somebody who isn't a sworn opponent what it actually means. Until then, you are wasting your time trying to make your obsession with a fantasy about your enemies being subhuman morons my fucking problem.
Gary Childress
Posts: 8121
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: In The News

Post by Gary Childress »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:57 am
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:29 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:42 pm
I have formed no strong opinion about CRT, so unless I develop an interest in the area I will not take time out to read a book about it. But I don't get to say yayyy CRET is fucking awesome, or boooo CRT is evilness unless I put actual effort in. Notice how I say neither of those things for this reason.
That sounds like a fair way to me for you to approach it. It sounds like you've developed an agnosticism toward it. If that is true, and you have not read anything about CRT, then it seems to me that ought to also prevent you from being able to say that people like IC have an incorrect impression. Assuming IC has read up on CRT (which I believe he claims he has) then there's really not much we can do other than ask an expert or something whether what IC says is true or not.
You are badly missing the point here. I hold that people in general are not absurd nonsense spouting idiots. IC's description of CRT is that it is the words of a bunch of absurd nonsense spouting idiots. I can point to other discussions where his description of his enemy's position is that of utter nonsense spouting idiots - in this case I chose atheism as that topic - and I suggest that you bear in mind that IC has a habitual pattern of describing all his foes in terms that can only apply to mentally diseased evildoers.

That is why I consider it irrational to just accept IC's explanation of CRT and just take it as a received truth.
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:29 am I'm agnostic about it too. Since I haven't read any texts concerning CRT, all I can do is give my opinions based on what I would consider reasonable or unreasonable were they the positions of CRT. I hope I made it clear in my posts that I do not hold any beliefs regarding CRT other than to say that IF CRT posits that people of color are incapable of being racist, then I would have to have them qualify what they mean by "racist". If they say that it is because only those who have power can be racist, then I can agree with that to whatever extent, however, from my own experience the position of people of color has been improving pretty drastically in the US. It's not completely leveled but there are men of color, women of color, and others in many political and managerial offices, which was not the case when I was young. So things are improving. And with those people of color in power, they too then become capable of being "racist", if they have the power to exercise their opinions.
I gave you a link to audio of an American sheriff and two buddies reminiscing about good old days when you could take an uppity N word dude and hang him just for being all disrespectful. This has nothing to do with racist assumptions subliminally buried in the institutions of a modern state's power structures, it's direct white supremacism, which hasn't gone away yet.

You turned the conversation to CRT as some sort of counter, I don't know why you made that choice, it is a you problem, as far as I am concerned, we have dismissed this irrelevance now because neither of us is qualified to have a serious discussion about CRT, and I have no need to jump into that pointless discussion.

If you care this much about CRT, you should get out there and find out from somebody who isn't a sworn opponent what it actually means. Until then, you are wasting your time trying to make your obsession with a fantasy about your enemies being subhuman morons my fucking problem.
I don't assume my enemies are "subhuman morons." But whatever. You all do what you have to. I'll try to dodge the bullets flying past in both directions. I friggin give up.
User avatar
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 6269
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: In The News

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:25 am I don't assume my enemies are "subhuman morons." But whatever. You all do what you have to. I'll try to dodge the bullets flying past in both directions. I friggin give up.
Yeah yeah yeah, you don't call them idiots, you just cheerfully assume they believe things that only complete idiots could possibly believe on the say so of people who openly despise them.
Post Reply