bahman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:50 pm
I believe in a new version of dualism in which there are two substances, namely, Mind and Qualia. Mind is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience ( experience Qualia), process the information within experience, decide, and finally cause (cause Qualia). Qualia is a reducible substance that is the subject of experience and causation. Matter is a set of minds that they interact with each other through Qualia.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:16 am
Dualism is basically problematic at the ultimate level.
My version of dualism is problem free.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:16 am
If you say 'consciousness is inert' it would like 'nitrogen' is inert.
By inert, I mean that it cannot move/cause other things. I am sure that there is a better word for this.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:16 am
In all such cases re the mind, consciousness, nitrogen and the likes, they can only be
emergences out of cosmological and evolutionary forces. This is the justification by empirical evidences
top-down mode.
If your view is not the above, then yours is the
bottom-up God's eyes view.
Since is it impossible for a God to exists as real, your mind, consciousness, etc. that follow from God are illusory.
I believe in a top-down view in which mind sits on top and Qualia sit below, in another word Qualia is caused/created by mind.
I noted your views are as follows??
1. Qualia experienced by Mind via consciousness
2. Consciousness in inert
3. Consciousness in the ability of the mind
4. Mind is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience ( experience Qualia)
Your approach in justifying reality is definitely not top-down but rather it is a bottom-up God's eyes' view.
You assumes and starts [as if there is an independent God] from the bottom that the 'mind' existed as an
irreducible substance without any justification it is real, i.e. empirically real.
Then you link this unjustified mind [bottom] up to the empirically justifiable Qualia, thus bottom-up.
If you are using a
top-down approach;
you should start with the empirically justifiable Qualia and work [reduce] your way downward.
This is like the scientific approach starting from observations and reducing inward [downward] to as far as the empirical justification can go.
In this case, what is the ground from Qualia?
The ground for Qualia is obviously reducible the justifiable mind;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind
The ground for the Mind is reducible mental capacities re the brain and body, the whole human self.
Without the human brain and body there is no human mind.
There is no irreducible mind.
As such, your idea of an irreducible mind is a bottom-up,
God's eyes' view approach which is similar to what theists [pantheists, deists, panentheists] are arguing for.
I recommend you Aquinas's FIVE Ways which is systematic and quite reasonable which methodology you can adopt; but ultimately failed to prove God exists as real.
Aquinas asserted that the ultimate Essence and Existence are the same thing; it is also an irreducible thing.
Thus whatever is expressed from the Essence, i.e. Qualia [existence] are in degrees of the ultimate 'existence', thus no dualism.
In your case you can substitute your 'irreducible mind' for Essence [also existence] which Aquinas label as God. If you don't call it God you can retain that as the 'irreducible mind'.
re Consciousness, there is the irreducible-Consciousness that facilitate consciousness in living beings in different degrees within a hierarchy of consciousness,
streaming from God, to angels, humans, animals, plants, single cells living things, physical matter[?].
It is this "streaming" that Aquinas avoided the dualism problem.