Reincarnation

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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attofishpi
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by attofishpi »

I guess I must have put the final death knell into the reincarnation thread. 8)
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by bahman »

attofishpi wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 11:06 am I guess I must have put the final death knell into the reincarnation thread. 8)
Well said, 67 pages with no conclusion, no proof, no evidence! :mrgreen:
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Iwannaplato »

Atla wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 11:29 am If people don't want their unusual experiences explained in mundane ways, then they shouldn't post them on philosophy forums imo. Someone might come along who knows a lot more about the human mind.
Why is it the people who pose as part of team rational so often engage in fallacies and manipulative posting. My objection was to you, a layperson, diagnosing someone online. Then showing that you conflate psychosis with disorders and have some real holes in your knowledge, even for a layperson. Obviously anyone posting any claims in a philosophy forum can expect to have their assertions criticized and alternative explanations and interpretations presented.

Just as your hallucinated ability to diagnose is open to criticism. Just as your interpersonal behavior, when doing so, is also open to criticism on moral and practical grounds.
The guy seems to have textbook psychosis
gets wiggled away from without concession.

If you're actually on team rational, you'd probably manage to concede some of that. But so far you're just acting like someone playing a team sport, iow to win only, though even there one can play with good sportsmanship. Or not, clearly.
Last edited by Iwannaplato on Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Iwannaplato »

attofishpi wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 11:06 am I guess I must have put the final death knell into the reincarnation thread. 8)
There will be a transmigration. You cannot kill the thread's soul.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Dontaskme »

attofishpi wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 11:06 am I guess I must have put the final death knell into the reincarnation thread. 8)
Only in your dreams.

In a dream, no 'thing' ever died, but it sure seemed real..
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Atla »

Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:54 am Why is it the people who pose as part of team rational so often engage in fallacies and manipulative posting. My objection was to you, a layperson, diagnosing someone online. Then showing that you conflate psychosis with disorders and have some real holes in your knowledge, even for a layperson. Obviously anyone posting any claims in a philosophy forum can expect to have their assertions criticized and alternative explanations and interpretations presented.

Just as your hallucinated ability to diagnose is open to criticism. Just as your interpersonal behavior, when doing so, is also open to criticism on moral and practical grounds.
Again, I didn't conflate psychosis with disorders. Psychosis is often part of some mental disorders, and the guy seems to have textbook psychosis. He is given olanzapine and other drugs by shrinks. I said you don't seem to know the first thing about mental disorders, because you completely failed to see that he had one or more psychotic breaks. Maybe that wasn't part of your training or I don't know.

Psychotic episodes can of course occur without any major mental disorder, duh.
The guy seems to have textbook psychosis
gets wiggled away from without concession.

If you're actually on team rational, you'd probably manage to concede some of that. But so far you're just acting like someone playing a team sport, iow to win only, though even there one can play with good sportsmanship. Or not, clearly.
I don't know what you mean. Wiggle away from what? Looks like you're the one simply trying to win, I'm just commenting here for fun and call it as I see it.

What is the other "team" here by the way? Shamanists?

And will you come up with an actual argument at some point?
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by attofishpi »

Atla wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:51 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:54 am Why is it the people who pose as part of team rational so often engage in fallacies and manipulative posting. My objection was to you, a layperson, diagnosing someone online. Then showing that you conflate psychosis with disorders and have some real holes in your knowledge, even for a layperson. Obviously anyone posting any claims in a philosophy forum can expect to have their assertions criticized and alternative explanations and interpretations presented.

Just as your hallucinated ability to diagnose is open to criticism. Just as your interpersonal behavior, when doing so, is also open to criticism on moral and practical grounds.
Again, I didn't conflate psychosis with disorders. Psychosis is often part of some mental disorders, and the guy seems to have textbook psychosis. He is given olanzapine and other drugs by shrinks.
Just to be clear, I found a post I had made some time ago, cbf retyping this and I feel Iwannaplato should have more of this "olanzapine" story:-


Ok, so my experience with psychiatrists goes like this, just so you can comprehend what I see as a fail in whatever methdology they employ:-

In late 2017 I get forced out of a really good job in IT by God - scrambling letters on my screen - "people" in the office calling out "do art" (of course, it's not them doing it) ...this is 26 years since first gaining knowledge of God's existence (1997)

So, I'm like screw this, I can't do the job anymore, clearly this entity is forcing me to do art - sounds rather dandy - the office job was rather boring. I resigned.

Financially I was in an ok position - I owed about $200 on my mortgage - just kept it open so I could withdraw if ever required - like now, having no job.
So I start doing paintings. And my mortgage is going in the wrong direction, the government job agency keeps telling me to apply for X number of jobs per week.

So I say to God\sage - how about giving me some money - you forced me out of work! Well, a couple of days later I see a deposit of $4500 in my bank with the transaction title: "BT - Portfolio" -- BT is my initials.
Do you think I am going to phone the bank and say "Hey, whats going on here!?" - nah!!

Anyway, the job agencies are really pissing me off so I think..mmm, maybe I go see a psychiatrist and they can get the job search agency off my back.

So. I take a small folder of the art I am working on (A4 prints of photos) and go to see a Govt psychiatrist. I explain stuff which is obviously insane - hearing God speaking and a sage speaking from the aether, wanting you to do art...bla bla..
After he told me he can give me a 3 month sick certificate to keep centrelink (govt job thingy) off my back....I said to him, so for me to get this certificate I have to deal with psychiatrist and take pills - I can't just deal with a psychologist?
- He says, that's right a govt requirement...adding...So you don't think there is anything mentally wrong with you?
- I said I know there is nothing wrong with me, beyond a God screwing with my reality to do this bloody art project!
- He says, well I've got to put something down on this certificate
- I say - so define schizophrenia, maybe it's God fucking with people!
- He glances at me, so I'll put down schizophrenia then?
- Sure!

Ok, so no issue with that. But every >2 months I had to see a shrink again to get another 3 month cert. And they rotate the shrinks - so I'd have to explain everything again, just reading the file of my "insanity" wasn't sufficient. Indeed, some of these 'professionals' really had little idea of philosophical stuff, and concepts with re to physics etc...so this is part of my point - THERE WAS NO RATIONAL DEBATE permitted. (I won't say what happened to the pills!!)

There were loads of different meds these shrinks would insist I test my brain with!!! (while I get my certificates to keep the govt off my back)

Olanzapine was one I tested and since it gives me a really deep sleep, I like to keep some in my cupboard.

Over to the expert(s) :mrgreen:
Atla
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Atla »

attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:01 pm
Atla wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:51 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:54 am Why is it the people who pose as part of team rational so often engage in fallacies and manipulative posting. My objection was to you, a layperson, diagnosing someone online. Then showing that you conflate psychosis with disorders and have some real holes in your knowledge, even for a layperson. Obviously anyone posting any claims in a philosophy forum can expect to have their assertions criticized and alternative explanations and interpretations presented.

Just as your hallucinated ability to diagnose is open to criticism. Just as your interpersonal behavior, when doing so, is also open to criticism on moral and practical grounds.
Again, I didn't conflate psychosis with disorders. Psychosis is often part of some mental disorders, and the guy seems to have textbook psychosis. He is given olanzapine and other drugs by shrinks.
Just to be clear, I found a post I had made some time ago, cbf retyping this and I feel Iwannaplato should have more of this "olanzapine" story:-


Ok, so my experience with psychiatrists goes like this, just so you can comprehend what I see as a fail in whatever methdology they employ:-

In late 2017 I get forced out of a really good job in IT by God - scrambling letters on my screen - "people" in the office calling out "do art" (of course, it's not them doing it) ...this is 26 years since first gaining knowledge of God's existence (1997)

So, I'm like screw this, I can't do the job anymore, clearly this entity is forcing me to do art - sounds rather dandy - the office job was rather boring. I resigned.

Financially I was in an ok position - I owed about $200 on my mortgage - just kept it open so I could withdraw if ever required - like now, having no job.
So I start doing paintings. And my mortgage is going in the wrong direction, the government job agency keeps telling me to apply for X number of jobs per week.

So I say to God\sage - how about giving me some money - you forced me out of work! Well, a couple of days later I see a deposit of $4500 in my bank with the transaction title: "BT - Portfolio" -- BT is my initials.
Do you think I am going to phone the bank and say "Hey, whats going on here!?" - nah!!

Anyway, the job agencies are really pissing me off so I think..mmm, maybe I go see a psychiatrist and they can get the job search agency off my back.

So. I take a small folder of the art I am working on (A4 prints of photos) and go to see a Govt psychiatrist. I explain stuff which is obviously insane - hearing God speaking and a sage speaking from the aether, wanting you to do art...bla bla..
After he told me he can give me a 3 month sick certificate to keep centrelink (govt job thingy) off my back....I said to him, so for me to get this certificate I have to deal with psychiatrist and take pills - I can't just deal with a psychologist?
- He says, that's right a govt requirement...adding...So you don't think there is anything mentally wrong with you?
- I said I know there is nothing wrong with me, beyond a God screwing with my reality to do this bloody art project!
- He says, well I've got to put something down on this certificate
- I say - so define schizophrenia, maybe it's God fucking with people!
- He glances at me, so I'll put down schizophrenia then?
- Sure!

Ok, so no issue with that. But every >2 months I had to see a shrink again to get another 3 month cert. And they rotate the shrinks - so I'd have to explain everything again, just reading the file of my "insanity" wasn't sufficient. Indeed, some of these 'professionals' really had little idea of philosophical stuff, and concepts with re to physics etc...so this is part of my point - THERE WAS NO RATIONAL DEBATE permitted. (I won't say what happened to the pills!!)

There were loads of different meds these shrinks would insist I test my brain with!!! (while I get my certificates to keep the govt off my back)

Olanzapine was one I tested and since it gives me a really deep sleep, I like to keep some in my cupboard.

Over to the expert(s) :mrgreen:
If you're gonna be psychotic, at least drop these obnoxious (gay?) dudes, and go with a sexy Goddess and a female sage or two, no? :)
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by attofishpi »

Atla wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:30 pm If you're gonna be psychotic, at least drop these obnoxious (gay?) dudes, and go with a sexy Goddess and a female sage or two, no? :)
Maaaate, I hear ya! I keep saying and in consideration of what I have witnessed and is possible - I say, hey - how about teleporting a female sage or three! (maybe that's being greedy)

When the Heavenly best part of God, which God\sage stated 'secret' - a few times recently and I reply "As if anyone is going to believe me!!" - let's just say that the prude Christian view re God is COMPLETELY wrong.

But, you remain atheist, I'll remain a schizophrenic that should be on tablets - and we can both agree to disagree with each other's POV within REAL_IT_Y.

8)
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Atla »

attofishpi wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:23 am
Atla wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:30 pm If you're gonna be psychotic, at least drop these obnoxious (gay?) dudes, and go with a sexy Goddess and a female sage or two, no? :)
Maaaate, I hear ya! I keep saying and in consideration of what I have witnessed and is possible - I say, hey - how about teleporting a female sage or three! (maybe that's being greedy)

When the Heavenly best part of God, which God\sage stated 'secret' - a few times recently and I reply "As if anyone is going to believe me!!" - let's just say that the prude Christian view re God is COMPLETELY wrong.

But, you remain atheist, I'll remain a schizophrenic that should be on tablets - and we can both agree to disagree with each other's POV within REAL_IT_Y.

8)
I'm just more-or-less an atheist. As a multiversist I believe in all kinds of possible godlike beings, just not truly omnipotent, I just haven't met any of them so far. I'm working on it heh.
I also spent my entire life in unusual states of mind, that's why I'm fairly confident that things experienced there, weren't it.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Dontaskme »

attofishpi wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:23 am let's just say that the prude Christian view re God is COMPLETELY wrong.

Every worded description or view of reality is wrong.

The Tao is "eternally nameless" and should be distinguished from the countless named things that are considered to be its manifestations, the reality of life before its descriptions of it.

Although words can be used to point to this truth. No thing/word can define ''what is'' or EVERY word defines it. And words know nothing.

As for reincarnation. Nothing does, because nothing lives or dies.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Dontaskme »

attofishpi wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:23 am - let's just say that the prude Christian view re God is COMPLETELY wrong.
No thing, not a thing, nothing knows.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by attofishpi »

Atla wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:17 am I'm just more-or-less an atheist. As a multiversist I believe in all kinds of possible godlike beings, just not truly omnipotent, I just haven't met any of them so far. I'm working on it heh.
Whether or not the God I am aware of is omnipotent beyond our local perception of reality, I am not convinced that it is.

Atla wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:17 amI also spent my entire life in unusual states of mind, that's why I'm fairly confident that things experienced there, weren't it.
What do you mean by 'unusual states of mind'?
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Atla »

attofishpi wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:28 am What do you mean by 'unusual states of mind'?
I seem to have or have had like more than half a dozen different mild-to-moderate brain issues (most of them are bad, a few are good, one is a very rare and massive gift) that alone may have gone unnoticed by me, but together they made me go through a rather unimaginable life experience. I got rid of most of the issues in the last decade. I don't fit into any category known by mental health. I've never met anyone similar to me. Others see me as normal so I blend in just fine.

I've experienced "softer versions" and sometimes not so softer versions of many unusual states of mind, for decades, to the point where I could build a whole system of understanding about them. I then even internalized the ones I didn't personally experience, for example psychopathy.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Dontaskme »

Atla wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:44 am I don't fit into any category known by mental health. I've never met anyone similar to me. Others see me as normal so I blend in just fine.
Sounds very familiar.

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