Goethe's Italian Journey

[mhoraine]

PS I also had thoughts about different types of pilgrimage and free food !!

what came to mind were students....particularly art students....who I think get free admission to galleries etc.
How wonderful....but then, what about 'life' students....we have to pay * sobs *

The religious pilgrims in the book have their goal in sight - various shrines - and try to push their religion.
There may be parallels with some hard-line philos - my way is the right way !
However, some 'pilgrims' just like to progress along the way and see where it takes them ? The 'food' may be free on-line but isn't it all in the search and the selection of what grabs your attention....
Hmmm, doesn't sound much like Deliberation and Reason, does it ?

Vive la difference....

[artisticsolution]

AS, I don't know how you do it, but you inspire me

Hi M,

I think we both inspire each other into action. Now I have to read 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance'! lol The book list is piling up high. I wonder how many years I have left....never been a concern before....on well, back to Italian Journey....I will check back in along the way!

[artisticsolution]

Hi M,

Well, I began to become a little bored and jealous of all the time Goethe was spending paying attention to all the art, landscape, etc. he was interested in on his Italian journey..instead of paying attention to me and my needs...lol. Men! So I decided to take the journey with him by experiencing some of the things he was seeing via google. So every time he would mention a place, painting, artist, architecture. etc...I would look at the image online. It is amazing how such a little thing can cause you to have a more intimate experience. Some of the artist he mentioned I had forgotten all about! It was delightful seeing them again through his eyes...one of my fav paintings by Durer was the first image to pop up on google (although the pic online is not as good of quality as the one I remember seeing...I am posting that one and a watercolor that inspired me.)


Goethe has redeemed himself and our rocky patch has smoothed over...all I had to do was shut up and allow him to guide me in the direction of inspiration! There were so many gorgeous pictures online of landscapes that I actually mourned the loss of being there...simply too many to post. Lucky you to have that to look forward to. Are you counting the days?

Today, I stopped on page 132...the "amusing antidote" that made me laugh...would have taken immense delight teasing Goethe about the whole situation had I been there! LOL

"For some time I had been aware that some German artists, evidently acquaintances of Tischbein's would give me a stare, go out and come back for another look. Presently Tischbein, who had left me alone for a few minutes, returned and said: 'This is going to be great fun. The rumor that you are in Rome has already spread and aroused the curiosity of the artists about the only foreigner whom nobody knows. One of our circle has always boasted of having met you and even lived with you on terms of intimacy, a story we found hard to believe. So we asked him to take a look at you and resolve our doubts. He promptly declared it was not you but a stranger without the slightest resemblance to you. So your incognito is safe, at least for the moment, and later we shall have something to laugh about.'"

[mhoraine]

Hi AL ( edit : where did AL come from - sorry AS ! )
I think you and Goethe are hitting it off better than whot I am

I haven't quite immersed myself in the totality that is Goethe. And yes, that ancedote is fun to explore....
When I first thought of Rome and Goethe, I wanted to know ' What did Goethe see ? '
I was fascinated by this : http://www.romeartlover.it/Goethe.html

Plans, photographs and paintings of before and after type stuff....related to the book.

Interesting as far as it goes, but not quite under the skin of him.
Now, I really wished I knew more about art....and the classics....and so on. It is strange to think that ( as far as I can remember ) Goethe pre his travels said he didn't know much about art. One way he captured his journey was through art - learning to draw....

I can't help feeling that being able to really see, think and express - is kinda missing with all today's instant images.
Yesterday, I was taking snaps of a wedding at Edinburgh castle.....The bride escorted by a piper, romantic huh ?....it all happened far too quickly, and I realized that I never really saw the bride....

Should I leave my camera behind when I visit Rome ?....
Really ?

[artisticsolution]

Hi M,

M:Hi AL ( edit : where did AL come from - sorry AS ! )

AS:I can call you Betty... And Betty when you call me ..You can call me Al

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULjCSK0oOlI

M:I haven't quite immersed myself in the totality that is Goethe. And yes, that ancedote is fun to explore....
When I first thought of Rome and Goethe, I wanted to know ' What did Goethe see ? '
I was fascinated by this : http://www.romeartlover.it/Goethe.html

AS: Thanks for the link! I will explore.

M:Interesting as far as it goes, but not quite under the skin of him.

AS: I think he is just really overwhelmed...trying to give his impression of the journey, his inspiration, his confusion regarding his 'intuition.' At the same time his logical side is trying to intellectualize his experiences. But maybe I am just projecting myself "under the skin of him."

M:I can't help feeling that being able to really see, think and express - is kinda missing with all today's instant images.
Yesterday, I was taking snaps of a wedding at Edinburgh castle.....The bride escorted by a piper, romantic huh ?....it all happened far too quickly, and I realized that I never really saw the bride....

AS: Yes, I know what you mean...and what is worse...things change and I am sure the landscape Goethe was looking at has changed dramatically. A picture does not do an experience justice.

Edinburgh castle? Sounds amazing! You lead such a charmed life!

M:Should I leave my camera behind when I visit Rome ?....

AS: Well, my thought is if you are going with someone maybe you could share the picture taking experience? One day you are in charge of pic they next day they are? However, if you are only going to take pictures of landmarks to record your experience I would say just leave that to the 'professionals" and get your pics online. Unless you want to record your experience artistically...then yes...you will have to be a slave to your camera.

Still, I have to admit...the only camera I carry is the one on my phone. Somehow it doesn't 'seem' like I have a camera. I can quickly take a pic and forget about it...then later I just email it to myself and viola! I am done!

Poor hubby was a slave to recording the history of our life. I tried to help him...because I wanted him to experience our life too...lol...but I was horrible...I would get excited and drop the camera...I took so much video of ground...you can hear the fun being had but can't see a thing!

The time I recorded my husband and kids taking surfing lessons in Hawaii is hysterical! I would see them just about to ride a wave in...and I would get so excited I had to look....and missed recording the whole thing! They were so mad at me when we got home and they went to look at "the big wave they took in" and all they saw was sand and me shouting excitedly, "GO GO GO!" LOL

[mhoraine]

Hi AS

Oh my, thank you SO much for that link - I can't remember hearing that song before - in the late 80's I was kinda out the music loop. As is my wont, I looked up t'other version : The Zimbabwe concert - now that was an EXPERIENCE
Deliciously playful, swaying hips and swinging instruments, and still serious...after all these years....

Now, where were we ?
Hmmm, photography and pictures not doing an experience justice - so why do we need them ? Perspective ?
So many reasons. I found the website ' Imago Romae' -with pics of La citta dell'aqua. Underground Rome, city of water - near the Trevi Fountain. ( under the skin of her ? ) { Oh, that reminds me, my comment referred back to the website link....but your take gave me a double one ! }

On...
http://www.imagoromae.com/frmPhotoExplo ... 61&lang=EN

as well as beautiful photography, a way of looking, there are a few quotes such as Elhert's 'Rome an innate place in every human being...an ideal home country ' ( Al and Betty drinking il vino ? ) and Bailey's ' photography - the means by which we learn to see the ordinary.'

I seem to be drifting from Goethe....

[artisticsolution]

Hi M,

Here...let me try and bring you back...(oh btw...do you have a link to the The Zimbabwe concert?)

I was feeling weird the other day...I was invited to another party and I just didn't want to go. I felt bad declining the invitation because I have already declined a previous one from the same person....but I just couldn't bare having to get out of myself and focus on others that particular day. So I choose to selfishly stay home while my husband and his mom attended.

This got me to thinking of you and I just had to tell you how I imagine you to be....in fact Goethe talked about a little get together he experienced and it is exactly how I imagine you to be at gatherings.

"Yet I find it hard to decide which are the more entertaining,our days or our evenings. As soon as our imposing landlady has placed the three-branched brass lamp on the table with the words 'felicissima notte!" we sit down in a circle and each brings out the drawings and sketches he has made during the day. A discussion follows:" Page 138

How exciting such a gathering would be! I would definitely attend all parties if they could be like that! This is how I see you with your love of poetry and music. I'll bet everyone hangs on your every word. I know I would. The conversation would be fantastic.

About photography, I believe a great photographer can make you see things in a way you've never seen them before. In that respect it's an art. However, that is an experience in itself in Italy, separate from being a tourist. I think you would definitely miss out on the broader Italy experience if you chose to photograph it as an artist. But you would become more intimate with certain things by taking pictures through the eyes of an artist. It's up to you to decide which one is more important to you. If you stayed all summer maybe you could do both! That's it...you've got to rent an apartment and take your time! Don't forget your computer though...I want to know about your journey!

[mhoraine]

Hi AS
Devo scappare - must dash - but afore ah go, here's Al and Betty in Zimbabwe - it's brilliant !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqrKejQT ... re=related

Happy dancing !

A presto....

[bus2bondi]

wow amazing conversation:) nothing to add myself, but enjoy reading it:) popping in to say hi:) great link

[mhoraine]

''felicissima notte!"

Hi b2b ....All welcome ! - that is the idea of the Book Club, isn't it ? But I'm turning the lights out on Goethe for now.....thanks for your imaginings AS, but that's all they are....

Later.

[mhoraine]

On volcanoes, near and far :

The eruption of Vesuvius fascinated Goehte - climbing it on the 2nd and 6th March ( p188 ; 192-3 ).
'....it was a grand uplifting specatacle. After a tremendous thundering roar which came out of the depth of the cauldron, thousands of stones...hurled in the air.....
Goethe was challenged by the 'imminent danger' and carefully reached the lip of the crater's mouth, by counting the intervals between eruptions.....and then he lost count !
'....a teriffic charge flew past us. We ducked instinctively, as if that would save us when the shower of stones began...' p194

Later, on the 2nd June : whilst Goethe and the Duchess of Giovene were 'walking up and down the room' - it was twilight, the shutters were closed and there were no candles....The Duchess suprised him by throwing open the shutters of the top floor window.

Goethe stood amazed : the sun had set, Vesuvius was before him...the lava glow lit up the clouds of smoke. '.... the mountain roared....in the glare, the separate clouds of vapour stood out in sculptured relief....from the summit to the sea ran a streak of molten lava...everywhere else sea, earth, rock and vegetation lay peaceful in the enchanting stillness of a fine evening, while the full moon rose from behiind the mountain ridge. It was an overwhelming sight'' p 328

They both watched in silence, and when they resumed their conversation - ' it took a more intimate turn '.

Wow ! Cue music.....

Guess you can do that sort of thing when you don't have a plane to catch ? Air travel once adventurous and enabling, now seems rather....well....horrendous ? Now that all this air ash from an Icelandic volcano has disrupted so many lives....will we return to the days of slow travel ???? Where can I hire a horse and cart ?

If I ever reach Rome, I will bow my head at the shrine of Vulcan...

[mhoraine]

Hi AS et al

Just to let you know I'm calling a halt to this for the time being. Been nice talking.

M.

[artisticsolution]

If I ever reach Rome, I will bow my head at the shrine of Vulcan...

Hi M, Bondi, Richard,

M, About the volcano and your trip, I am going to pull out all the stops and ask my mom to put in a good word with the big guy (he usually gives her anything she asks for.) I can't believe how fast the fates worked this time...I should not have beckoned them to this thread. I will try to set a decoy for them in one of the republican threads to get them off your scent.

Bondi, I am glad to see you...but please save yourself while you can. The fates are on a rampage! Be free young one...be free!

Richard,

I can't tell you how delighted I am that you introduced me to Catullus. I have been enjoying his poetry! And last night there was this hysterical skit on the Daily Show where someone of your caliber in the audience ( lol) mentioned him..and I 'got the joke'! Do you know how rare that is for me! I am soooo excited! I am forever in your debt! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-a ... fires-back

P.S If it doesn't come through like last time it was the show on April 20, 2010. Or maybe Psy can post a link that works again.) Oh and M, I am glad to hear that I have something to look forward to with Goethe and his 'intimate' moment because I feel as if I was lead into this book on false pretenses...it was implied there would be sex...I was promised sex damn it!

[Richard Baron]

Oh no AS, I have corrupted you! I blame the British education system. When I was at school, Catullus was for some reason considered to be a suitable set text for teenage boys studying Latin.

For those in the UK, here is a link that should work:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the- ... tewart/4od

You want the show that is labelled "Wednesday 21 April" (available until 27 or 28 April). Scroll in to 6.30.

The line that is quoted, "Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo" is the opening line of Catullus 16. For more information, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catullus_16

[artisticsolution]

What's a little corruption between friends? Speaking of which...I think of all the poems of his that I have read so far...the one below is my favorite. It is the most passionate outpouring of hate and disgust that I have ever read! Catullus makes my anger at the past administration seem angelic. Talk about 'leaving a mark!' Ouch! Catullus is mean, rude, overbearing, vulgar....I like him! LOL

"You wouldn’t think it made much difference

sniffing around Aemilius’ mouth or his asshole,

one being no better or worse than the other,

but I figure his ass is a whole lot better,

it’s got no teeth. His mouth has teeth in it

a half a yard long, the gums are all rotten,

sagging down loose as an old covered wagon,

and when he smiles the lips spread open wide

like a mule’s **** dripping on a hot summer day.

This is the big lover the ladies all fuck for?

I’d plug his face with a horse dick instead.

A girl who’d go near a creep like that, she

could get down and ream a sick hangman’s ass."