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I'm not quite sure what you are asking/saying here. Aer there people who have consider reason God? Are you against this? Or is it more like some people say other people have a religion of reason, but you think those people are confused about people who value reason?
You have over 1200 postings on this site and have been here for 13 years and you don’t understand what I’ve posted. Really? Oh, FYI, I do believe google posts definitions for you.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:41 pmI'm not quite sure what you are asking/saying here. Aer there people who have consider reason God? Are you against this? Or is it more like some people say other people have a religion of reason, but you think those people are confused about people who value reason?
Are there people who see reason of the provider of all they need to know?
I'd need a definition of reason to decide if that position makes any sense. I think it is likely confused, but it would depend.
Yes, I didn't understand what you posted. I took a few stabs. Were any close? Yes, I know how to find definitions of reason online and otherwise. But I find that different people, here and elsewhere use the word 'reason' in different ways. Some mean just formal, logical, verbal processes. Some include intuition (or I would say, notice that intuition plays a role) others do not. For example. Some think primarily of deduction. Some are not so fond of abduction. Some empiricists really onlike induction. Some people haven't really thought it out and it means something like 'good thinking' and this tend to mean assertions they agree with or short little bursts of assertions in support of something. So, yes, I asked. And over the 13 years I have experienced people reasoning in a wild variety of ways and often it seems to me what they consider reasoning isn't that. Other times I think they fail to respect or admit to the use of processes they do in fact use. I don't know you or your positions, so I asked for clarification.DPMartin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:40 pmYou have over 1200 postings on this site and have been here for 13 years and you don’t understand what I’ve posted. Really? Oh, FYI, I do believe google posts definitions for you.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:41 pmI'm not quite sure what you are asking/saying here. Aer there people who have consider reason God? Are you against this? Or is it more like some people say other people have a religion of reason, but you think those people are confused about people who value reason?
Are there people who see reason of the provider of all they need to know?
I'd need a definition of reason to decide if that position makes any sense. I think it is likely confused, but it would depend.
Yes, the mind can become a god.
well logic wasn't mentioned, though I can see what you’re getting at, I see it on philosophy web sites everywhere, but the subject is reason as a god and or religion. Many are closet worshipers of reason idolizing it.bobmax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:00 pmYes, the mind can become a god.
But I would distinguish between reason and logical thinking.
Because reason uses logical thinking but is not limited to it.
It is logical thinking that can become a god.
And it becomes so when reason is lost in it.
That is, when it loses sight of the fact that logical thinking is only a tool.
A tool to be used at best, but which does not provide any truth, other than that supposed by the same reason.
If reason flattens itself on logical thought, it loses awareness of the limit beyond which logical thought cannot go.
And so the logic becomes self-sufficient without the awareness of what underlies it.
Here is that the mind believes itself to be god!
A devastating hallucination.
The Nazis, for example, were excellent logicians ...
I mentioned logic to open the subject.DPMartin wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:16 pm well logic wasn't mentioned, though I can see what you’re getting at, I see it on philosophy web sites everywhere, but the subject is reason as a god and or religion. Many are closet worshipers of reason idolizing it.
granted logic is garbage in garbage out, reason is considered superior to that by most.
I do NOT know.
Close enough to ABSOLUTELY POWERFUL.
Absolutely ANY old enough human being can BELIEVE absolutely ANY thing is true, or false, including BELIEVING that 'reason' is 'their' God. However, once BELIEF has set in 'reason' is; REALLY 'out the door', as some might say.
From my perspective, NOT that it really matters, but I am STILL NOWHERE near fully understanding your post here, either. For example, I do NOT even KNOW what the words 'the religion of reason' means nor is it referring to. EXACTLY what was just said and POINTED OUT to you by "iwannaplato".DPMartin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:40 pmYou have over 1200 postings on this site and have been here for 13 years and you don’t understand what I’ve posted. Really? Oh, FYI, I do believe google posts definitions for you.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:41 pmI'm not quite sure what you are asking/saying here. Aer there people who have consider reason God? Are you against this? Or is it more like some people say other people have a religion of reason, but you think those people are confused about people who value reason?
Are there people who see reason of the provider of all they need to know?
I'd need a definition of reason to decide if that position makes any sense. I think it is likely confused, but it would depend.
What is 'the mind', and, what is 'a god', EXACTLY?
AND, 'you', "bobmax", NOT so good a 'logician', correct?bobmax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:00 pm But I would distinguish between reason and logical thinking.
Because reason uses logical thinking but is not limited to it.
It is logical thinking that can become a god.
And it becomes so when reason is lost in it.
That is, when it loses sight of the fact that logical thinking is only a tool.
A tool to be used at best, but which does not provide any truth, other than that supposed by the same reason.
If reason flattens itself on logical thought, it loses awareness of the limit beyond which logical thought cannot go.
And so the logic becomes self-sufficient without the awareness of what underlies it.
Here is that the mind believes itself to be god!
A devastating hallucination.
The Nazis, for example, were excellent logicians ...
Who are SOME of these MANY?DPMartin wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:16 pmwell logic wasn't mentioned, though I can see what you’re getting at, I see it on philosophy web sites everywhere, but the subject is reason as a god and or religion. Many are closet worshipers of reason idolizing it.bobmax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:00 pmYes, the mind can become a god.
But I would distinguish between reason and logical thinking.
Because reason uses logical thinking but is not limited to it.
It is logical thinking that can become a god.
And it becomes so when reason is lost in it.
That is, when it loses sight of the fact that logical thinking is only a tool.
A tool to be used at best, but which does not provide any truth, other than that supposed by the same reason.
If reason flattens itself on logical thought, it loses awareness of the limit beyond which logical thought cannot go.
And so the logic becomes self-sufficient without the awareness of what underlies it.
Here is that the mind believes itself to be god!
A devastating hallucination.
The Nazis, for example, were excellent logicians ...
So, to 'you', "dpmartin", 'most', (whatever that is in relation to), consider 'reason' to be SUPERIOR to 'logic', correct?
The idea of reason has a history. Socrates and Confucius were salient figures who advanced the idea of reason, and in modern Europe Descartes made a great leap forward that enable scientific enlightenment. I have not studied the history of reason as such however these few examples are common knowledge.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:57 pmYes, I didn't understand what you posted. I took a few stabs. Were any close? Yes, I know how to find definitions of reason online and otherwise. But I find that different people, here and elsewhere use the word 'reason' in different ways. Some mean just formal, logical, verbal processes. Some include intuition (or I would say, notice that intuition plays a role) others do not. For example. Some think primarily of deduction. Some are not so fond of abduction. Some empiricists really onlike induction. Some people haven't really thought it out and it means something like 'good thinking' and this tend to mean assertions they agree with or short little bursts of assertions in support of something. So, yes, I asked. And over the 13 years I have experienced people reasoning in a wild variety of ways and often it seems to me what they consider reasoning isn't that. Other times I think they fail to respect or admit to the use of processes they do in fact use. I don't know you or your positions, so I asked for clarification.DPMartin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:40 pmYou have over 1200 postings on this site and have been here for 13 years and you don’t understand what I’ve posted. Really? Oh, FYI, I do believe google posts definitions for you.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:41 pm
I'm not quite sure what you are asking/saying here. Aer there people who have consider reason God? Are you against this? Or is it more like some people say other people have a religion of reason, but you think those people are confused about people who value reason?
Are there people who see reason of the provider of all they need to know?
I'd need a definition of reason to decide if that position makes any sense. I think it is likely confused, but it would depend.
Yes, in my 13 years here, asking for clarification has not always led somewhere. Other times it has. Not much should surprise me, even snarkiness over asking for clarification. But still, it does on occasion.