The Evolution of Religion.

[Nick_A]

Can the human race, or the Great Beast in Plato's terms, evolve to a greater conscious understanding of Man's connection with its Source? To many there is no connection since it is all imagination. This thread deals with the human potential to consciously bypass the results of imagination with conscious experience.

Can Man transcend the religion of fear to open to the external religion of morality defined by a personal God, and finally to the inner religion of developing his potential to experience the "cosmic religious feeling" or objective conscience?

This is a difficult question and I do not know of a better way then to use this essay by Albert Einstein to introduce it. If true religion can evolve in the cause of truth Plato called the GOOD and the heart of Man is drawn to. Will the personal God and morality continue to be argued or will Man have the potential to evolve to the cosmic man in which the evolution of religion or conscience is the norm? Of course Man needs the help of the Holy Spirit to open the heart and the mind of Man.

The development from a religion of fear to a moral religion is a great step in peoples lives. And yet, that primitive religions are based purely on fear and the religions of civilized peoples purely on morality is a prejudice against which we must be on guard. the truth is that all religions are a varying blend of both types, with this differentiation: that on the higher levels of social life the religion of morality predominates.

Common to all types is the anthropomorphic character of their conception of God. In general, only individuals of exceptional endowments, and exceptionally high-minded communities, rise to any considerable extent above this level. But there is a third stage of religious experience which belongs to all of them, even though it is rarely found in a pure form: I shall call it cosmic religious feeling. It is very difficult to elucidate this feeling to anyone who is entirely without it, especially as there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it.

The individual feels the futility of human desires and aims and the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in the world of thought. Individual existence impresses him as a sort of prison and he want to experience the universe as a single significant whole. The beginnings of cosmic religious feeling already appear at an early stage of development, e.g., in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the Prophets. Buddhism, as we have learned especially from the wonderful writings of Schopenhauer, contains a much stronger element of this.

The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men who were filled with this highest kind of religious feeling and were in many cases regarded by their contemporaries as atheists, sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi, and Spinoza are closely akin to one another.

How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it.

-- Albert Einstein, Science and Religion, NY Times, November 9, 1930.

How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it.

How can a seeker of truth find such people?

[promethean75]

"In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling"

Well I'll tell you sumthin pal, the only feeling art and science has awakened in me is a sense of profound meaningless and terminal ennui. And if I feel 'awe' or reverence about/for anything, it's at how ridiculous, how truly tragic and saddening man's situation is. It can only be called absurd. Even our worst characterizations are meaningless. Like it's that bad. All we are left with is the absurdity of this affliction... that about life, we can say nothing more than Mercury. Nothing really matters. Anyone can see. Nothing really mAAaa-ters.............. to me.

[Nick_A]

"In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling"

Well I'll tell you sumthin pal, the only feeling art and science has awakened in me is a sense of profound meaningless and terminal ennui. And if I feel 'awe' or reverence about/for anything, it's at how ridiculous, how truly tragic and saddening man's situation is. It can only be called absurd. Even our worst characterizations are meaningless. Like it's that bad. All we are left with is the absurdity of this affliction... that about life, we can say nothing more than Mercury. Nothing really matters. Anyone can see. Nothing really mAAaa-ters.............. to me.

Are you open to the idea that the universe is logical in ways science still doesn't understand? If such understanding is possible, doesn't it make logical sense to admit that we still don't understand. Understanding would be our potential.

Einstein wrote: The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.

Yet you write that the universe is meaningless. Isn't it more logical to admit that it seems meaningless to you since all we experience is an insignificant reflection?

[Age]

Can the human race, or the Great Beast in Plato's terms, evolve to a greater conscious understanding of Man's connection with its Source?

Yes. It is and always has been.

To many there is no connection since it is all imagination. This thread deals with the human potential to consciously bypass the results of imagination with conscious experience.

Can Man transcend the religion of fear to open to the external religion of morality defined by a personal God, and finally to the inner religion of developing his potential to experience the "cosmic religious feeling" or objective conscience?

Why do you write the 'man' word with a capital 'm'?

What 'religion of fear' are you referring to here?

What is an 'external religion of morality'? In fact what is a 'religion of morality'?

What 'personal God' are you talking about and referring to here? And, how many 'Gods' are there, to you?

What 'inner religion' are you talking about and referring to here?

If you describe what a "cosmic religious feeling“ is, or refers to, EXACTLY, then some might be able to inform you that 'it' has ALREADY been experienced, and maybe FULLY as well.

How do you define 'objective conscience'?

This is a difficult question and I do not know of a better way then to use this essay by Albert Einstein to introduce it. If true religion can evolve in the cause of truth Plato called the GOOD and the heart of Man is drawn to. Will the personal God and morality continue to be argued or will Man have the potential to evolve to the cosmic man in which the evolution of religion or conscience is the norm?

WHY do you ASSUME that this a so-called 'difficult' question?

The answer to it is extremely SIMPLE and EASY to comprehend, and understand.

Of course Man needs the help of the Holy Spirit to open the heart and the mind of Man.

It is exactly statements and claims like this WHY 'you', human beings, are taking SO LONG to comprehend, and understand EVERY thing here.

The development from a religion of fear to a moral religion is a great step in peoples lives. And yet, that primitive religions are based purely on fear and the religions of civilized peoples purely on morality is a prejudice against which we must be on guard. the truth is that all religions are a varying blend of both types, with this differentiation: that on the higher levels of social life the religion of morality predominates.

Common to all types is the anthropomorphic character of their conception of God. In general, only individuals of exceptional endowments, and exceptionally high-minded communities, rise to any considerable extent above this level. But there is a third stage of religious experience which belongs to all of them, even though it is rarely found in a pure form: I shall call it cosmic religious feeling. It is very difficult to elucidate this feeling to anyone who is entirely without it, especially as there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it.

The individual feels the futility of human desires and aims and the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in the world of thought. Individual existence impresses him as a sort of prison and he want to experience the universe as a single significant whole. The beginnings of cosmic religious feeling already appear at an early stage of development, e.g., in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the Prophets. Buddhism, as we have learned especially from the wonderful writings of Schopenhauer, contains a much stronger element of this.

The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men who were filled with this highest kind of religious feeling and were in many cases regarded by their contemporaries as atheists, sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi, and Spinoza are closely akin to one another.

How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it.

-- Albert Einstein, Science and Religion, NY Times, November 9, 1930.

How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology?

WHY ASSUME that so-called 'cosmic religious feeling' can NOT give rise to NO definite notion of a God and NO theology?

In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it.

But it is your kind of DISTORTED and TWISTED thinking, ASSUMING, and BELIEVING, which is what is putting to SLEEP the very 'thing' that you say you want AWOKEN.

The feeling IS HERE, ALIVE to some degree, within EVERY one. It was FULLY AWAKE at birth, but it just gets SHUT DOWN or put to SLEEP with ALL of the LIES and DECEPTIONS that are told by adult human beings to children.

How can a seeker of truth find such people?

STOP seeking truth, and just START being Truly OPEN and Honest INSTEAD, then the Right people APPEAR.

[Dontaskme]

How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another

Human feelings are so overrated. Coming back down to earth often helps to ground one to see things for what they are, and not what they are not. Often it is tempting to allow ones emotional trips to distract from the real world into other worlds of pure fantasy.

Why does this happen?...is because evolution just happened to grow the human brain to become a big and complex organ, resulting in a unique ability to be able to string symbols together to form meaningful sentences that seem to appear as though they are writing the story of their life. Strange how human brains can read and write stories, but they can. Maybe the brain is a biological computer, yes, that's probably what it is.


It's obvious, the human brain evolved to become hedonistic...I see no other sentient organism coming up with the idea of ''religion''

So yes, 'religion' caused a fuzzy feeling in the human brain, it was just another dopamine shot to the brain....which is addictive...Addiction seems to be the evolutionary traction that moves life forward in a sense that gives it the will to continue to survive and reproduce. But here's the kicker, evolutions 'end goal' is shockingly, but not surprisingly ALL for what exactly? ...absolutely NOTHING..that's what.

In a nut-shell, life is all just one big stupid, dumb, mindless, meaningless, pointless, pathetic sick joke.


So yes, humans want to sell their stories to one another. Who will buy my story.

[Veritas Aequitas]

Can the human race, or the Great Beast in Plato's terms, evolve to a greater conscious understanding of Man's connection with its Source?
To many there is no connection since it is all imagination.
This thread deals with the human potential to consciously bypass the results of imagination with conscious experience.

.. The beginnings of cosmic religious feeling already appear at an early stage of development, e.g., in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the Prophets.
Buddhism, as we have learned especially from the wonderful writings of Schopenhauer, contains a much stronger element of this.

How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it.
-- Albert Einstein, Science and Religion, NY Times, November 9, 1930.

How can a seeker of truth find such people?

If Einstein [believe in no personal God but rather deism] had sensed that Buddhism is more superior in terms of spirituality, and this superiority entails there is no God because Buddhism-proper is non-theistic.

Humans had evolved from being 'beasts' to the necessity of inferring an ultimate source [theistic] driven by an inherent psychological impulse but humans are continuing to evolve from theistic religions to non-theistic religions [Buddhism] and eventually and rationally [..I predict] to no religions [.institutional & organized] at all.
This trend is so evident with the decreasing population of theists since 5000 years ago to the present 2022.

Christianity with its gospels is the most optimal religion for the present majority but the majority will veer towards non-theistic religions & spirituality in the future.

The trend of the evolution of religion is toward no religion in the future in correspondence to the increase in spirituality and rationality of the average human.

Those who are theistically inclined at present should reflect [know thyself!] on their current psychological state on why they MUST [no choice] cling to a theistic religion where God is merely an illusory thing.

[puto]

Plato followed a duality of body and soul (Harris, 24.) A Hellenistic writer rejected the traditional biblical concept of Sheol (Harris, 226.) Plato influenced Western religion about the immorality of the soul rewards and punishments (Harris, 276.) The philosopher would seek eternal truth (Harris, 277.) Plato became common knowledge during the Hellenistic era (Harris, 277.) Hebrews 11.1, “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen,” (The New Oxford Annotated Bible.) So, Christian faith in reality of the invisible realm.
Work Cited
The Bible. The New Oxford Annotated Bible, 4th ed. Oxford University Press, 2007 CE, Kindle.
Harris, Stephen L. Exploring the Bible, 2nd ed, McGraw Hill, 2014 CE, Print.

[popeye1945]

Religious perspective---- https://www.tiktok.com/@thegenxcrew/vid ... xP01V&_r=1

[Iwannaplato]

Well I'll tell you sumthin pal, the only feeling art and science has awakened in me is a sense of profound meaningless and terminal ennui. And if I feel 'awe' or reverence about/for anything, it's at how ridiculous, how truly tragic and saddening man's situation is. It can only be called absurd. Even our worst characterizations are meaningless. Like it's that bad. All we are left with is the absurdity of this affliction... that about life, we can say nothing more than Mercury. Nothing really matters. Anyone can see. Nothing really mAAaa-ters.............. to me.

Thank you. I love reading existentialist quotes that make me feel like a hopelessly irrelevant nothing that momentarily exists for no reason and is destined for eternal oblivion after death.

Only now do I feel so much more alive and pointless, and I want to thank you.

[Nick_A]

It seems those here believe there is nothing to evolve since there is no realistic God concept. Fantasy by definition cannot evolve. I'm looking for those who have experienced the gradual transition from fantasy described by Einstein into the reality of the ineffable God such as the ONE described by Plotinus and the source of objective conscience in our species.

From the Einstein essay:

The individual feels the futility of human desires and aims and the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in the world of thought. Individual existence impresses him as a sort of prison and he want to experience the universe as a single significant whole. The beginnings of cosmic religious feeling already appear at an early stage of development, e.g., in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the Prophets. Buddhism, as we have learned especially from the wonderful writings of Schopenhauer, contains a much stronger element of this.

Einstein wanted to "experience the universe as a single significant whole". Yet those here prefer to deny its existence and consider it fantasy. Suppose man is a mini universe structured in the same way as our great universe? Can Man evolve to "know thyself", to have the experience of oneself, rather than imagining it? Perhaps the more a person can evolve to "know thyself", the more religion can evolve within them. They may experience conscience.

[Dontaskme]

Well I'll tell you sumthin pal, the only feeling art and science has awakened in me is a sense of profound meaningless and terminal ennui. And if I feel 'awe' or reverence about/for anything, it's at how ridiculous, how truly tragic and saddening man's situation is. It can only be called absurd. Even our worst characterizations are meaningless. Like it's that bad. All we are left with is the absurdity of this affliction... that about life, we can say nothing more than Mercury. Nothing really matters. Anyone can see. Nothing really mAAaa-ters.............. to me.

Thank you. I love reading existentialist quotes that make me feel like a hopelessly irrelevant nothing that momentarily exists for no reason and is destined for eternal oblivion after death.

Only now do I feel so much more alive and pointless, and I want to thank you.

Me too, I love the liberation and bliss that comes from knowing who you are.
It's such a euphoric feeling, just thinking about it, I think I am about to cry.

[jayjacobus]

Can the human race, or the Great Beast in Plato's terms, evolve to a greater conscious understanding of Man's connection with its Source? To many there is no connection since it is all imagination. This thread deals with the human potential to consciously bypass the results of imagination with conscious experience.

Can Man transcend the religion of fear to open to the external religion of morality defined by a personal God, and finally to the inner religion of developing his potential to experience the "cosmic religious feeling" or objective conscience?

This is a difficult question and I do not know of a better way then to use this essay by Albert Einstein to introduce it. If true religion can evolve in the cause of truth Plato called the GOOD and the heart of Man is drawn to. Will the personal God and morality continue to be argued or will Man have the potential to evolve to the cosmic man in which the evolution of religion or conscience is the norm? Of course Man needs the help of the Holy Spirit to open the heart and the mind of Man.

The development from a religion of fear to a moral religion is a great step in peoples lives. And yet, that primitive religions are based purely on fear and the religions of civilized peoples purely on morality is a prejudice against which we must be on guard. the truth is that all religions are a varying blend of both types, with this differentiation: that on the higher levels of social life the religion of morality predominates.

Common to all types is the anthropomorphic character of their conception of God. In general, only individuals of exceptional endowments, and exceptionally high-minded communities, rise to any considerable extent above this level. But there is a third stage of religious experience which belongs to all of them, even though it is rarely found in a pure form: I shall call it cosmic religious feeling. It is very difficult to elucidate this feeling to anyone who is entirely without it, especially as there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it.

The individual feels the futility of human desires and aims and the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in the world of thought. Individual existence impresses him as a sort of prison and he want to experience the universe as a single significant whole. The beginnings of cosmic religious feeling already appear at an early stage of development, e.g., in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the Prophets. Buddhism, as we have learned especially from the wonderful writings of Schopenhauer, contains a much stronger element of this.

The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men who were filled with this highest kind of religious feeling and were in many cases regarded by their contemporaries as atheists, sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi, and Spinoza are closely akin to one another.

How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it.

-- Albert Einstein, Science and Religion, NY Times, November 9, 1930.

How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it.

How can a seeker of truth find such people?

Once such people are found, they must be teachers of how to awaken the spirit. If they only preach about the spirit, you can not follow their path or make your own path.