Ukraine Crisis

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Sculptor
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Sculptor »

Gary Childress wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:02 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:30 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 9:43 pm

I don't live in Russia either so I can't understand it either from where I sit. However, I've heard that Putin was rejected from NATO because it was determined that he (as a particular leader) was considered a "dangerous" person. Now he's been the leader of Russia for how long? He's done what to opponents and dissidents? He's invaded how many of his neighbors? Why is Putin so adamant about holding onto power and why are the people of Russia supporting him and not someone else?
"Putin was rejected from NATO".
WTF does this mean?
NATO only exists to threaten Russia. That is its purpose. By the way your talk it's almost as if you are implying that he asked to join.

And what of dissidents? Have you not heard of Bradley Manning, or Julian Assange? People who demonstrated that the US government agencies were in breach of human rights and breaking national and international laws.
You tell me how many Neighbours he has invaded? Would that be more or less than the number of countries the US has attacked, invaded, and intrigued against ?
OK. Now what do we do? How do we solve the current conflict?
There would have to be the will to peace. Sadly the interests are feeding the meat grinder known as the military/industrial complex,
For my money I do not see a problem with East Ukraine seceding from Ukraine to Russia as Crimea did. The majority are Russian speakers.
Quid pro quo - NATO and EU get the rest of the Ukraine.
IN an ideal world everyone would ignore national and ethnic differences; there would be really free trade (which exists nowhere), and some international mechanism to provide minimum subsistence for all with the richest countries paying the most - but then I'm just an old idealist.
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Gary Childress »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:55 am
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:02 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:30 pm

"Putin was rejected from NATO".
WTF does this mean?
NATO only exists to threaten Russia. That is its purpose. By the way your talk it's almost as if you are implying that he asked to join.

And what of dissidents? Have you not heard of Bradley Manning, or Julian Assange? People who demonstrated that the US government agencies were in breach of human rights and breaking national and international laws.
You tell me how many Neighbours he has invaded? Would that be more or less than the number of countries the US has attacked, invaded, and intrigued against ?
OK. Now what do we do? How do we solve the current conflict?
There would have to be the will to peace. Sadly the interests are feeding the meat grinder known as the military/industrial complex,
For my money I do not see a problem with East Ukraine seceding from Ukraine to Russia as Crimea did. The majority are Russian speakers.
Quid pro quo - NATO and EU get the rest of the Ukraine.
IN an ideal world everyone would ignore national and ethnic differences; there would be really free trade (which exists nowhere), and some international mechanism to provide minimum subsistence for all with the richest countries paying the most - but then I'm just an old idealist.
Yes. And until there is more understanding among the peoples of Earth, there will be militaries. The question then becomes, how much should we devote to defending borders against complete utter chaos, versus how much are we willing to "love thy neighbor" regardless of who one's neighbor is. If every nation had a free press that will report things objectively and not just represent narrow interests, that would make it easier for people from different places to know one another and know what is going on. But secrets and covert activities raise paranoia. And to be honest, I don't know if the people of Earth are ready for a single unified leadership. Just my thoughts. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

In the meantime, there is the UN. And the UN is pretty darn important to EVERYONE on Earth right now.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Dubious
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Dubious »

Gary Childress wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 am
Dubious wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:17 am
Age wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:58 am
Okay, but is 'this' just an ATTEMPT AT DISTRACTION of your absolute INABILITY of being able to EXPLAIN what 'it' is, EXACTLY, which COULD BE POSSIBLY 'lost' and/or 'won' here?
Wouldn't someone who speaks to us puny mortals - alive in the here and now - from a future considerably advanced know EXACTLY not what COULD BE POSSIBLY lost or won but know EXACTLY what EXACTLY was won or lost? Can you please EXACTLY state the outcome. Do we still speak English or would it be Chinese or Russian? Please EXACTLY identify which it will be so we can prepare for the transition...just in case the unexpected wasn't EXACTLY what we expected?
Give it a rest Dubious. Just give it a rest. Please. It's not worth it.
Give what a rest? Don't be such a party-pooper; I was having fun. But have no fear! I won't be replying to you in the future...starting EXACTLY now.
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Sculptor
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Sculptor »

Gary Childress wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:43 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:55 am
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:02 am

OK. Now what do we do? How do we solve the current conflict?
There would have to be the will to peace. Sadly the interests are feeding the meat grinder known as the military/industrial complex,
For my money I do not see a problem with East Ukraine seceding from Ukraine to Russia as Crimea did. The majority are Russian speakers.
Quid pro quo - NATO and EU get the rest of the Ukraine.
IN an ideal world everyone would ignore national and ethnic differences; there would be really free trade (which exists nowhere), and some international mechanism to provide minimum subsistence for all with the richest countries paying the most - but then I'm just an old idealist.
Yes. And until there is more understanding among the peoples of Earth, there will be militaries. The question then becomes, how much should we devote to defending borders against complete utter chaos, versus how much are we willing to "love thy neighbor" regardless of who one's neighbor is. If every nation had a free press that will report things objectively and not just represent narrow interests, that would make it easier for people from different places to know one another and know what is going on. But secrets and covert activities raise paranoia. And to be honest, I don't know if the people of Earth are ready for a single unified leadership. Just my thoughts. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

In the meantime, there is the UN. And the UN is pretty darn important to EVERYONE on Earth right now.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Military oppression and control is one way.
THe US employ economic imperialism, and one tool they use to control other peoples is the every eatward march of NATO.
You cannot expect Russia to stand idle, and so they respond as they can, and that is exactly what the US establishment have engineered to happen.
In a conflict you have to ask Cui Bono.
And the answer is Arms dealers; the arms dealers who have bought and sold US political parties, and in many cases are the same people.
Meanwhile the meat grinder goes on and ordinary people pay the price, with their lives and livelihoods, their homes and schools and futures to make sure that another generation of gun manufacturers in the US get their wages paid.
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Gary Childress »

Dubious wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:27 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 am
Dubious wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:17 am

Wouldn't someone who speaks to us puny mortals - alive in the here and now - from a future considerably advanced know EXACTLY not what COULD BE POSSIBLY lost or won but know EXACTLY what EXACTLY was won or lost? Can you please EXACTLY state the outcome. Do we still speak English or would it be Chinese or Russian? Please EXACTLY identify which it will be so we can prepare for the transition...just in case the unexpected wasn't EXACTLY what we expected?
Give it a rest Dubious. Just give it a rest. Please. It's not worth it.
Give what a rest? Don't be such a party-pooper; I was having fun. But have no fear! I won't be replying to you in the future...starting EXACTLY now.
There's no party to "poop". Now is the time to focus on what must be done to ensure safety for ALL. Some of us must do our work, unimpeded by those who only wish to have fun.
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Gary Childress »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:12 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:43 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:55 am

There would have to be the will to peace. Sadly the interests are feeding the meat grinder known as the military/industrial complex,
For my money I do not see a problem with East Ukraine seceding from Ukraine to Russia as Crimea did. The majority are Russian speakers.
Quid pro quo - NATO and EU get the rest of the Ukraine.
IN an ideal world everyone would ignore national and ethnic differences; there would be really free trade (which exists nowhere), and some international mechanism to provide minimum subsistence for all with the richest countries paying the most - but then I'm just an old idealist.
Yes. And until there is more understanding among the peoples of Earth, there will be militaries. The question then becomes, how much should we devote to defending borders against complete utter chaos, versus how much are we willing to "love thy neighbor" regardless of who one's neighbor is. If every nation had a free press that will report things objectively and not just represent narrow interests, that would make it easier for people from different places to know one another and know what is going on. But secrets and covert activities raise paranoia. And to be honest, I don't know if the people of Earth are ready for a single unified leadership. Just my thoughts. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

In the meantime, there is the UN. And the UN is pretty darn important to EVERYONE on Earth right now.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Military oppression and control is one way.
THe US employ economic imperialism, and one tool they use to control other peoples is the every eatward march of NATO.
You cannot expect Russia to stand idle, and so they respond as they can, and that is exactly what the US establishment have engineered to happen.
In a conflict you have to ask Cui Bono.
And the answer is Arms dealers; the arms dealers who have bought and sold US political parties, and in many cases are the same people.
Meanwhile the meat grinder goes on and ordinary people pay the price, with their lives and livelihoods, their homes and schools, and futures to make sure that another generation of gun manufacturers in the US get their wages paid.
The only way humanity will ever win a war is when both sides surrender at the same time and lay down their weapons. That cannot be done without trust.
Walker
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Walker »

Gary Childress wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:04 pm The only way humanity will ever win a war is when both sides surrender at the same time and lay down their weapons. That cannot be done without trust.
:roll:

That’s stock answer #2 from the Beauty Pagent Circuit.

Stock answer #1 is, World Peace. Interestingly enough, the world veered towards peace when Trump was president … which apparently was intolerable to the Left that mongers war through weakness and corruption of institutions that were originally designed to activate the constitution, rather than fundamentally change for the sake of change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

The USA sneezes and the world caught a cold.
Gary Childress
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Gary Childress »

Walker wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 4:01 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:04 pm The only way humanity will ever win a war is when both sides surrender at the same time and lay down their weapons. That cannot be done without trust.
:roll:

That’s stock answer #2 from the Beauty Pagent Circuit.

Stock answer #1 is, World Peace. Interestingly enough, the world veered towards peace when Trump was president … which apparently was intolerable to the Left that mongers war through weakness and corruption of institutions that were originally designed to activate the constitution, rather than fundamentally change for the sake of change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

The USA sneezes and the world caught a cold.
Is world peace not a good answer? Is it not something worth making an effort toward? Trump also tried to ramp up our nuclear program to create better weapons of mass destruction. That made other nations in the world do the same. Trump turned on China and China has now militarized, thanks to that. The world is nervous about what we will do as a country if we think only of the good of ourselves and not also the good of others.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
popeye1945
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by popeye1945 »

The world is pissed off with America behaving as it has, as an international crime family. The BRICS is bringing the world together, one should rejoice at that. All empires who strive for world dominance overextend themselves, just as America has done, rejoice at its decline. Inhumanity was its mainstay; will the world forgive?
mickthinks
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by mickthinks »

Walker wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 4:01 pm... Interestingly enough, the world veered towards peace when Trump was president
No it didn't, Walker. You just think it did. You are seeing it through MAGA eyes.
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Agent Smith
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Agent Smith »

One person wasn't on the list but was in the hall. It was quite obvious what should be done, but count Richard III was a peculiar sorta person and just to give you an idea of how much of an oddball he is I'll tell you what he did when he first set foot on Memphis soil - the plane had landed at 6:45 PM from an undisclosed location. What did he do? He first took of his hat, threw it into the air, whipped out a razor, shaved off the left of his moustache, the right of his beard and half of both eyebrows! Then he proceeded to undress himself but that's just what it looked like to everyone else and me. Only 3 days later did we find out the reason for the count's bizarre behavior! It had something to do with roses and their colors and how that made them unpalatable to Himalayan musk deer.
Gary Childress
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Gary Childress »

popeye1945 wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:43 am The world is pissed off with America behaving as it has, as an international crime family. The BRICS is bringing the world together, one should rejoice at that. All empires who strive for world dominance overextend themselves, just as America has done, rejoice at its decline. Inhumanity was its mainstay; will the world forgive?
I'll "rejoice" when it becomes apparent to me that BRICS is going to be anything different. Give it time, they'll probably be dictating economic terms to my country. A simple reversal of the master/slave relationship seems little more righteous than the state of affairs afflicted by the prior master. It's just someone else being the winner and another being the loser That's all. Nothing changes, and nothing improves except at someone else's gain and someone else's expense.
popeye1945
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by popeye1945 »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:48 am
popeye1945 wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:43 am The world is pissed off with America behaving as it has, as an international crime family. The BRICS is bringing the world together, one should rejoice at that. All empires who strive for world dominance overextend themselves, just as America has done, rejoice at its decline. Inhumanity was its mainstay; will the world forgive?
I'll "rejoice" when it becomes apparent to me that BRICS is going to be anything different. Give it time, they'll probably be dictating economic terms to my country. A simple reversal of the master/slave relationship seems little more righteous than the state of affairs afflicted by the prior master. It's just someone else being the winner and another being the loser That's all. Nothing changes, and nothing improves except at someone else's gain and someone else's expense.
Can't really argue with that, but we do know what appears to be in the present, and we know America has been a vile master. All one can do is lean towards the light. The BRICS at present appears to be operating on a totally different mentality, operating on a sense of humanity. That is why I suggested, maybe the world can forgive America.
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Gary Childress »

popeye1945 wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 10:21 am
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:48 am
popeye1945 wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:43 am The world is pissed off with America behaving as it has, as an international crime family. The BRICS is bringing the world together, one should rejoice at that. All empires who strive for world dominance overextend themselves, just as America has done, rejoice at its decline. Inhumanity was its mainstay; will the world forgive?
I'll "rejoice" when it becomes apparent to me that BRICS is going to be anything different. Give it time, they'll probably be dictating economic terms to my country. A simple reversal of the master/slave relationship seems little more righteous than the state of affairs afflicted by the prior master. It's just someone else being the winner and another being the loser That's all. Nothing changes, and nothing improves except at someone else's gain and someone else's expense.
Can't really argue with that, but we do know what appears to be in the present, and we know America has been a vile master. All one can do is lean towards the light. The BRICS at present appears to be operating on a totally different mentality, operating on a sense of humanity. That is why I suggested, maybe the world can forgive America.
OK. I see your point. If the news is accurate where you are, and the news is accurate where I am, then I see your point. I don't know if the news where I am is accurate. But I see what you are saying. You are right.
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Dontaskme »

“Through every generation of the human race there has been a constant war, a war with fear. Those who have the courage to conquer it are made free and those who are conquered by it are made to suffer until they have the courage to defeat it, or death takes them.”
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