nihilism

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Gary Childress
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Re: nihilism

Post by Gary Childress »

popeye1945 wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:40 pm Gary, what kind of support system or even family do you have for support? Remember that what is real is biological interpretation so something is awry, perhaps it is just a chemical imbalance, at any rate you shouldn't be facing this alone, don't be too proud to ask for help otherwise it could be your demise. Are some of these flashbacks? I take it you've tried various medications but have not found the right one or ones, it is probable that it is chemistry. WOW, man, I wish I could be there for you, but it is totally unreasonable if you're facing this alone. You are an intelligent guy, you know you need help, don't try to bear it alone.
Thank you for your kind words. I will do my best.
Flannel Jesus
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Re: nihilism

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Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:01 pm
Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:02 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:00 pm It is NO joke nor meant to be a joke on my part. I can assure you of that. All I can say is that what is in my visions must not be real. Or if it is real then it must stop.
I wish I could help you, but I'm not a professional in that regard. Do you have access to real professional help? If not, is there something you could do to get access to it?

You're a veteran, right?
No. I am not a veteran.
Oh my mistake. I thought you were, I was hoping you'd be able to access mental health services through there
Gary Childress
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Re: nihilism

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Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:39 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:01 pm
Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:02 pm

I wish I could help you, but I'm not a professional in that regard. Do you have access to real professional help? If not, is there something you could do to get access to it?

You're a veteran, right?
No. I am not a veteran.
Oh my mistake. I thought you were, I was hoping you'd be able to access mental health services through there
Sorry. No. I can only use what services are available to me and right now the ones available to me probably won't be able to do anything except give me medications. I'm not sure if any other psychiatrists can help me or not. It's OK. If I can't figure out how to deal with the visions I have or if the visions won't go away, then I will deal with them, if I am able. If I'm not able, then I don't know what to do. But do so, I must.
Flannel Jesus
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Re: nihilism

Post by Flannel Jesus »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 3:09 pm
Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:39 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:01 pm

No. I am not a veteran.
Oh my mistake. I thought you were, I was hoping you'd be able to access mental health services through there
Sorry. No. I can only use what services are available to me and right now the ones available to me probably won't be able to do anything except give me medications. I'm not sure if anyone else can help me. It's OK. If I can't figure out how to deal with the visions I have or if the visions won't go away, then I will deal with them, if I am able. If I'm not able, then I don't know what to do.
Are you entirely opposed to accepting help in the form of medications?
Gary Childress
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Re: nihilism

Post by Gary Childress »

Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 3:12 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 3:09 pm
Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:39 pm

Oh my mistake. I thought you were, I was hoping you'd be able to access mental health services through there
Sorry. No. I can only use what services are available to me and right now the ones available to me probably won't be able to do anything except give me medications. I'm not sure if anyone else can help me. It's OK. If I can't figure out how to deal with the visions I have or if the visions won't go away, then I will deal with them, if I am able. If I'm not able, then I don't know what to do.
Are you entirely opposed to accepting help in the form of medications?
I don't know. I take my medications most of the time. Sometimes I miss a dose, especially if I'm ruminating. I don't know what the medication does, really. I take it and not too much changes in my mind lately, so I'm not sure if they are working or not. The alternative is to take some sort of medication that will just clear my mind or shut down my mind, or whatever, of these thoughts. However, I'm not sure if it's the right thing to do. It has been my experience that the same thoughts always return down the road in some new shape or form or whatnot and I have to deal with them once again. The medications I think are probably mostly having the effect of making me complacent, and simply kicking something I have to deal with further down the road. I don't know.

I feel like I should stop running from the horrible thoughts and find out if they are actually true or not. However, if they are true, then I cannot bear to know they are true. If they are not true then it will set my mind at ease, however, I will always wonder if I'm being deceived or lied to by those who wish to prove the thoughts are false for no other reason than to hide what is real from me, perhaps even for my own good. I don't know. And I don't know of any way to stop the thoughts than for me to just stop being. That's not an easy choice for a person to make.

I think I unknowingly did that for my dad recently. I was told one thing and therefore chose to do something but now wonder if what I was told was true or not. I don't know. They said my dad was on life support and my dad's living will stated that he did not want to be left on life support. He didn't want to suffer and he didn't want to be a burden on others. I don't know what I did when I told them to stop life support but I've begun to get uncanny thoughts about it, almost thinking I was lied to. But then I have to think to myself whether the lie was for my good, the common good or no good at all. That's also a difficult decision to make.

I don't know what else to do. In the end I will have to face these thoughts I think. Hospitals (whether mental or primary care) usually make the thoughts worse for me.

Some of this might be TMI but I don't know what else to do. Mentally I've been struggling with horrible thoughts, physically I'm sitting in front of a computer screen.
Flannel Jesus
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Re: nihilism

Post by Flannel Jesus »

It's relieving to hear that you're not going through this out of a refusal for medication, but I feel for you when you say you think the medication just delays the problem. This sounds like something extremely difficult
Gary Childress
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Re: nihilism

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Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 3:44 pm It's relieving to hear that you're not going through this out of a refusal for medication, but I feel for you when you say you think the medication just delays the problem. This sounds like something extremely difficult
I'm going through this because I don't know how else to rightfully, properly or appropriately deal with it. Being on the computer relaxes me right now but I wonder if maybe getting off the computer would be the right thing for me to do. But if I get off the computer then what? I will only be left even more ignorant. But does anyone need to know what I think might be happening? If they do can it be stopped somehow? Or if it can't be stopped then should I leave others to eventually face what I'm facing? Or is it not true at all?
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iambiguous
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Re: nihilism

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For me, what's most crucial is not what might be deemed meaningful to any particular individuals but the times when what has become meaningful to them generates conflicts with others who find different meanings in them. Particularly in regard to moral and political and spiritual value judgments.

That's why, for me, nihilism revolves largely around conflicting goods.

Then the part where something is meaningful to us and by and large is meaningful in the same way to others. Or if precipitating a different meaning, this is derived by and large from the manner in which I construe the self as rooted existentially in dasein.

Given a particular context.
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iambiguous
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Re: nihilism

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What Are the Five Theories of Nihilism?
Curated by TheCollector
As you might guess, Political Nihilism was concerned with the nature of politics and government.
And, therefore, in my view, it is by far the most important component of a nihilistic perspective. Why? Because the government [might makes right, right make might or democracy and the rule of law] encompasses that aspect of our lives where behaviors can actually be prescribed or proscribed...by law or by edict. And most governments have at their disposal police power and military power in order to enforce their own political agenda.

Thus in nations like Russia and China, where state capitalism prevails, "show me the money", a profoundly amoral political agenda, can basically be the overall aim of those political nihilists in power. And in America, where crony capitalism prevails, it is a powerful impetus behind both economic and foreign policy.
This strand of Nihilism tore down all pre-existing institutions that try to dictate how we live out our lives, including religion, political institutions and even social clubs and organizations.
In other words, the advent of mercantilism and international trade, configuring historically into full-blown capitalism into the industrial revolution.

BUT:

There is also another way in which political nihilism is often construed: by the anarchists...
Its leading thinkers argued that we should question any higher authority that attempts to dictate how we live our lives. They emphasized that all these controlling institutions were corrupt and had their own agenda, so we should remain deeply suspicious of, and skeptical about their motives.
These guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_nihilist_movement

"He's a nihilist," repeated Arkady.

"A nihilist," said Nikolai Petrovitch. "That's from the Latin, nihil, nothing, as far as I can judge; the word must mean a man who... who accepts nothing?"

"Say, who respects nothing," put in Pavel Petrovitch, and he set to work on the butter again.

"Who regards everything from the critical point of view," observed Arkady.

"Isn't that just the same thing?" inquired Pavel Petrovitch.

"No, it's not the same thing. A nihilist is a man who does not bow down before any authority, who does not take any principle on faith, whatever reverence that principle may be enshrined in."


Ivan Turgenev, Fathers and Sons

Here, everything generally shifts to the other end of the spectrum. The emphasis is placed on the individual and on communities that dispense with the state -- the government -- altogether. If anyone is going to dictate how we should live it will be us ourselves.

Yet, in my view, dasein is no less a crucial factor regarding the moral and political agendas embraced subjectively/existentially by the anarchists out in particular worlds understood in particular ways. One can be a political nihilist and yet still be convinced that how one construes conflicting goods reflects the most rational and virtuous assessments.

And the bottom line is that, historically, the anarchists have never really prevailed as a potent political force.

https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=195600
Gary Childress
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Re: nihilism

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iambiguous wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 5:12 pm What Are the Five Theories of Nihilism?
Curated by TheCollector
As you might guess, Political Nihilism was concerned with the nature of politics and government.
And, therefore, in my view, it is by far the most important component of a nihilistic perspective. Why? Because the government [might makes right, right make might or democracy and the rule of law] encompasses that aspect of our lives where behaviors can actually be prescribed or proscribed...by law or by edict. And most governments have at their disposal police power and military power in order to enforce their own political agenda.

Thus in nations like Russia and China, where state capitalism prevails, "show me the money", a profoundly amoral political agenda, can basically be the overall aim of those political nihilists in power. And in America, where crony capitalism prevails, it is a powerful impetus behind both economic and foreign policy.
This strand of Nihilism tore down all pre-existing institutions that try to dictate how we live out our lives, including religion, political institutions and even social clubs and organizations.
In other words, the advent of mercantilism and international trade, configuring historically into full-blown capitalism into the industrial revolution.

BUT:

There is also another way in which political nihilism is often construed: by the anarchists...
Its leading thinkers argued that we should question any higher authority that attempts to dictate how we live our lives. They emphasized that all these controlling institutions were corrupt and had their own agenda, so we should remain deeply suspicious of, and skeptical about their motives.
These guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_nihilist_movement

"He's a nihilist," repeated Arkady.

"A nihilist," said Nikolai Petrovitch. "That's from the Latin, nihil, nothing, as far as I can judge; the word must mean a man who... who accepts nothing?"

"Say, who respects nothing," put in Pavel Petrovitch, and he set to work on the butter again.

"Who regards everything from the critical point of view," observed Arkady.

"Isn't that just the same thing?" inquired Pavel Petrovitch.

"No, it's not the same thing. A nihilist is a man who does not bow down before any authority, who does not take any principle on faith, whatever reverence that principle may be enshrined in."


Ivan Turgenev, Fathers and Sons

Here, everything generally shifts to the other end of the spectrum. The emphasis is placed on the individual and on communities that dispense with the state -- the government -- altogether. If anyone is going to dictate how we should live it will be us ourselves.

Yet, in my view, dasein is no less a crucial factor regarding the moral and political agendas embraced subjectively/existentially by the anarchists out in particular worlds understood in particular ways. One can be a political nihilist and yet still be convinced that how one construes conflicting goods reflects the most rational and virtuous assessments.

And the bottom line is that, historically, the anarchists have never really prevailed as a potent political force.

https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=195600
There are two ways to find out what "nihilism" is.

One is the theoretical approach which is probably a good start for those trying to learn, especially the young, because the young are better able to internalize and thus later recall for use, the knowledge of their time. The other approach to learning what nihilism is to actually experience that which brings one to "nihilism' or the belief in "nothing."

Nihilism derives from Latin meaning "nothing" and "ism" is the practical application of the belief in everyday life, to make it a way of doing. NihiI"ism" is what a nihilist does or thinks based on a belief in "nothing". When a young person first learns the theoretical formulation of her or his time of what "nihilism" is, s/he is learning how "nihilism" was ordered in his or her society while growing up. For example a person might learn that nihilism is either a good or bad thing depending upon what they are told by their parents and teachers in the time that they are in school.

Nihilism is flexible from that point onward. It cannot be eradicated. It cannot be eradicated by burning books or statues or anything else that tell us of its history. We learn from history what and why things were once upon a time. From that those who study history can better understand the human experience thoughout history.
popeye1945
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Re: nihilism

Post by popeye1945 »

Nihilism can only have so many meanings, the one most thought about is the psychological state, a state one is brought to due to depression or due to the belief of no values bringing one to depression. The only other example is the reality of Nihilism, for it should be known to all thinking people that the world as we know it, our apparent reality; is utterly meaningless in the absence of a conscious subject. This infers our apparent reality is a subjective projection. The conscious subject's reality is how the subject is physically altered by the energies surrounding s/he. It is true we cannot escape our subjectivity to know what is really out there. We can however imagine, with the aid of contemporary science, that the world is in fact energy. Apparent reality being a melody those energies play upon biological consciousness as if it were its instrument.
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iambiguous
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Re: nihilism

Post by iambiguous »

What is Nihilism?
Curated by TheCollector
Derived from the Latin word ‘nihil’ meaning ‘nothing’, Nihilism was quite possibly the most pessimistic school of philosophy.
Or, quite possibly, the most realistic school of philosophy. And then the part where nihilists can actually use the philosophy to enhance their lives. How? By accumulating many, many more options when everything that you think, feel, say or do is not anchored to one or another set of "moral obligations".
It was a widespread style of thinking throughout 19th century Europe, led by prominent thinkers including Friedrich Jacobi, Max Stirner, Søren Kierkegaard, Ivan Turgenev and, to some extent, Friedrich Nietzsche, although his relationship to the movement was complicated.
Complicated because it always comes down to just how far one goes in saying that something means "nothing". At least given a world where many, many, many things not only mean something but mean exactly the same thing to all of us. Really, imagine human interactions in a world where everyone believed that everything means nothing. Or means only what it does to them.
Nihilism questioned all forms of authority, including government, religion, truth, values, and knowledge, arguing that life is essentially meaningless and nothing really matters. But it wasn’t all doom and gloom – some found the idea of rejecting prescribed doctrines a liberating prospect, and Nihilism eventually paved the way for the later, less pessimistic philosophical styles of Existentialism and Absurdism.
Over and over again: that crucial distinction between essential and existential meaning.

Why?

Because if we cannot demonstrably establish philosophically/ethically/politically behaviors that are in fact essentially/universally/objectively rational and virtuous in a No God world, then who gets to says what "the best of all possible worlds" is?

And then back to this:
But it wasn’t all doom and gloom – some found the idea of rejecting prescribed doctrines a liberating prospect, and Nihilism eventually paved the way for the later, less pessimistic philosophical styles of Existentialism and Absurdism
On the other hand, how to respond philosophically to, among others, the sociopaths.

https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=195600
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Agent Smith
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Re: nihilism

Post by Agent Smith »

Who were you talking to, father?

A child, just a child, there he goes!

He looks happy! What did you say to him, father?

Nothing actually, I just sat next to him.
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iambiguous
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Re: nihilism

Post by iambiguous »

What is Nihilism?
Curated by TheCollector
1. Nihilism Questioned Figures of Authority

One of the fundamental aspects of Nihilism was its rejection of all forms of authority.
Obviously. After all, from one single individual all the way up to a government, what is an authority but an entity claiming the capacity to know all. An authority on all that is said to be rational and virtuous. That's why those from Satyr over at Know Thyself to the theocrats in Iran or Afghanistan to Kim Jong Un in North Korea embrace their own rendition of authoritarianism. Not only is there One True Path to enlightenment, but, in fact, there must be because they are already on it!

Not on it yourself?

Go ahead, note how they react to that.
Nihilists questioned what gave one figure the authority to preside over another, and asked why there should be such a hierarchy in place at all.
In the modern world however this gets tricky. Why? Because those who own and operate the most powerful nations around the globe are often not in the least interested in objective morality. They basically preside over an amoral hierarchy. Their main interest is accumulating wealth and power. In fact, it is only when you get down to individual authoritarians like Satyr...those who have utterly no impact on the world around us...will you still find folks committed to a "my way or the highway", "one of us"/"one of them" moral and political dogma.
They argued no one should be more important than anyone else, because we are all as meaningless as each other. This belief has led to one of the more dangerous strands of Nihilism, prompting people to wage acts of violence and destruction against the police or local governments.
Again, "in theory" this frame of mind is one thing. In practice, however, it can manifest itself in as many different ways as there are nihilists grappling with the human condition in a No God world. Yes, some nihilists will configure politically into anarchists and go after the authorities around them. But others become sociopaths interested in fulfilling only their own selfish gratifications.

And then those like me "fractured and fragmented" to the point that the whole point itself is to accumulate as many fulfilling distractions as possible..."things to do" to keep what you have thought yourself into believing about your own essentially meaningless and purposeless existence at bay.

https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=195600
popeye1945
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Re: nihilism

Post by popeye1945 »

Nihilism teaches one thing to the last man standing, you as a reactionary creature are the creator of all meanings, or your ancestor's created meanings which you probably accepted unquestioning, the biology thus processes have not changed.
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