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Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:41 pm
by Zarathustra
Can death be a metaphysical subject?
The obvious problem would be, how can one describe or explain, something one has never experienced directly by oneself?
Would it be, whatever is said about death, out of one's imagination or from the observations of others deaths?
Hence, can it ever be true or accurate?
Re: Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm
by Age
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:41 pm
Can death be a metaphysical subject?
The answer to this question depends on what the word 'metaphysical' means or refers to, to you?
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:41 pm
The obvious problem would be, how can one describe or explain, something one has never experienced directly by oneself?
Very easily, and very simply.
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:41 pm
Would it be, whatever is said about death, out of one's imagination or from the observations of others deaths?
From what is ACTUALLY observed, and experienced.
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:41 pm
Hence, can it ever be true or accurate?
Yes and yes.
Re: Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:41 pm
by Zarathustra
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm
The answer to this question depends on what the word 'metaphysical' means or refers to, to you?
What is your definition of Metaphysics?
Re: Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:12 am
by Age
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:41 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm
The answer to this question depends on what the word 'metaphysical' means or refers to, to you?
What is your definition of Metaphysics?
So, you start a thread, with the topic title having the word 'metaphysics' included, then you go on to pose a question regarding if some thing can be 'metaphysical' topic or not, but when you are questioned about what the word 'metaphysics' actually means or refers to, you then put that question back onto the one who asked you first.
Here is an example of WHY people, in the days when this was being written, were still asking these sorts of questions, as in the first line of this thread. When, and if, people can work out the meanings of words by, and for, "themelves", then you could work out what thee answer ACTUALLY IS to their OWN questions, like the one posed here.
Anyway, to me, the definition I use for the 'metaphysics' word is; higher or beyond the 'physical'.
Re: Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:20 pm
by Zarathustra
Age wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:12 am
So, you start a thread, with the topic title having the word 'metaphysics' included, then you go on to pose a question regarding if some thing can be 'metaphysical' topic or not, but when you are questioned about what the word 'metaphysics' actually means or refers to, you then put that question back onto the one who asked you first.
Here is an example of WHY people, in the days when this was being written, were still asking these sorts of questions, as in the first line of this thread. When, and if, people can work out the meanings of words by, and for, "themelves", then you could work out what thee answer ACTUALLY IS to their OWN questions, like the one posed here.
Anyway, to me, the definition I use for the 'metaphysics' word is; higher or beyond the 'physical'.
When you said, it depends on what the definition of metaphysics is, I thought you might come up with some unusual definition of Metaphysics. My definition of metaphysics is that it is a subject that studies all abstract entities in the universe.
Whether death can be classed as abstract entity or event, I am not sure, hence the thread was born.
Re: Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:08 am
by Age
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:20 pm
Age wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:12 am
So, you start a thread, with the topic title having the word 'metaphysics' included, then you go on to pose a question regarding if some thing can be 'metaphysical' topic or not, but when you are questioned about what the word 'metaphysics' actually means or refers to, you then put that question back onto the one who asked you first.
Here is an example of WHY people, in the days when this was being written, were still asking these sorts of questions, as in the first line of this thread. When, and if, people can work out the meanings of words by, and for, "themelves", then you could work out what thee answer ACTUALLY IS to their OWN questions, like the one posed here.
Anyway, to me, the definition I use for the 'metaphysics' word is; higher or beyond the 'physical'.
When you said, it depends on what the definition of metaphysics is, I thought you might come up with some unusual definition of Metaphysics. My definition of metaphysics is that it is a subject that studies all abstract entities in the universe.
Whether death can be classed as abstract entity or event, I am not sure, hence the thread was born.
Okay. So, if that is all you are wondering, then just answer the question, 'What is an 'abstract entity', EXACTLY?, and, 'What is 'death', EXACTLY?', and then you can be sure if 'death' can be classed as an 'abstract entity'.
Considering that these two clarifying questions can be very easily answered, very simply and very accurately, there really is NO issue here.
Re: Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:56 am
by Zarathustra
Age wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:08 am
Okay. So, if that is all you are wondering, then just answer the question, 'What is an 'abstract entity', EXACTLY?, and, 'What is 'death', EXACTLY?', and then you can be sure if 'death' can be classed as an 'abstract entity'.
Considering that these two clarifying questions can be very easily answered, very simply and very accurately, there really is NO issue here.
I would have thought you would know the standard English definition of those terms. I don't suppose the philosophical definitions would be much different.
You are asking the definitions yet again in the same fashion as your last post.
I find it very peculiar. Is it because you don't know them yourself, or are you trying to compare your definitions to mine?
Re: Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:19 am
by Age
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:56 am
Age wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:08 am
Okay. So, if that is all you are wondering, then just answer the question, 'What is an 'abstract entity', EXACTLY?, and, 'What is 'death', EXACTLY?', and then you can be sure if 'death' can be classed as an 'abstract entity'.
Considering that these two clarifying questions can be very easily answered, very simply and very accurately, there really is NO issue here.
I would have thought you would know the standard English definition of those terms. I don't suppose the philosophical definitions would be much different.
You are asking the definitions yet again in the same fashion as your last post.
I find it very peculiar. Is it because you don't know them yourself, or are you trying to compare your definitions to mine?
What I am saying is, that if you ask and answer those questions "yourself", then you will know if 'death' is a metaphysical subject or not, under your definition of things.
The answer to your thread title is obvious, well to me anyway. But being 'obvious' is depended upon the definitions one uses. So, if the answer is not yet 'obvious' to you, then there must be something amiss with the definitions you use.
Re: Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:07 pm
by Terrapin Station
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:41 pm
The obvious problem would be, how can one describe or explain, something one has never experienced directly by oneself?
You can say a lot about it a la what makes ontological sense in general, in particular re what we know about bodies and how they work, and so on.
Re: Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:40 pm
by Zarathustra
Age wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:19 am
What I am saying is, that if you ask and answer those questions "yourself", then you will know if 'death' is a metaphysical subject or not, under your definition of things.
The answer to your thread title is obvious, well to me anyway. But being 'obvious' is depended upon the definitions one uses. So, if the answer is not yet 'obvious' to you, then there must be something amiss with the definitions you use.
I don't think philosophy is all about juggling with definitions. OK. definitions are important. It saves a lot of confusion if you get it right, and also agree with others in debates. But it is not all there is to it.
What I was after from this thread was seeing some lights in the arguments such as, when the livings like us who has never experienced death directly in our own life, can discuss the topic like this in any logical and meaningful manner, and in metaphysical sense. Or would it be the case of blind people describing the nature of elephant, after touching one elephant's leg.
Re: Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:43 pm
by Zarathustra
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:07 pm
You can say a lot about it a la what makes ontological sense in general, in particular re what we know about bodies and how they work, and so on.
Can death be thought of having ontological entity? I thought it is an event for an individual. It is a momentary event. After a death occurred to someone, the same death cannot happen twice to the person. It is the eternal end.
Re: Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:40 pm
by Terrapin Station
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:43 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:07 pm
You can say a lot about it a la what makes ontological sense in general, in particular re what we know about bodies and how they work, and so on.
Can death be thought of having ontological entity? I thought it is an event for an individual. It is a momentary event. After a death occurred to someone, the same death cannot happen twice to the person. It is the eternal end.
Ontology, which is the bulk of metaphysics, is the philosophical study of what exists, what occurs, what obtains, etc. So if death occurs, and it certainly does, we can look at what it is ontologically, in terms of "its nature as an occurrence" and so on.
Re: Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:05 am
by Age
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:40 pm
Age wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:19 am
What I am saying is, that if you ask and answer those questions "yourself", then you will know if 'death' is a metaphysical subject or not, under your definition of things.
The answer to your thread title is obvious, well to me anyway. But being 'obvious' is depended upon the definitions one uses. So, if the answer is not yet 'obvious' to you, then there must be something amiss with the definitions you use.
I don't think philosophy is all about juggling with definitions.
Neither do I. So we are in agreement here.
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:40 pm
OK. definitions are important. It saves a lot of confusion if you get it right, and also agree with others in debates.
But what will be found is when you come to an agreement about the definitions of words, and do get it Right, then there is, literally, nothing at all to 'debate' anyway.
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:40 pm
But it is not all there is to it.
What I was after from this thread was seeing some lights in the arguments such as, when the livings like us who has never experienced death directly in our own life, can discuss the topic like this in any logical and meaningful manner, and in metaphysical sense.
Yes we can. All the True, Right, Accurate, and Correct answers in Life can be found, through logically reasoned, peaceful discussions.
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:40 pm
Or would it be the case of blind people describing the nature of elephant, after touching one elephant's leg.
But what is there about 'death' that you still do not yet understand?
If you let us know that, then we can fill you in with the Right answers.
Also, I suggest LOOKING AT the whole elephant, and not just one leg, that is; if you Truly do want to SEE the whole, picture. And, by the way, physical blindness has absolutely no affect on this at all.
Re: Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:40 pm
by jayjacobus
Age wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:05 am
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:40 pm
Age wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:19 am
What I am saying is, that if you ask and answer those questions "yourself", then you will know if 'death' is a metaphysical subject or not, under your definition of things.
The answer to your thread title is obvious, well to me anyway. But being 'obvious' is depended upon the definitions one uses. So, if the answer is not yet 'obvious' to you, then there must be something amiss with the definitions you use.
I don't think philosophy is all about juggling with definitions.
Neither do I. So we are in agreement here.
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:40 pm
OK. definitions are important. It saves a lot of confusion if you get it right, and also agree with others in debates.
But what will be found is when you come to an agreement about the definitions of words, and do get it Right, then there is, literally, nothing at all to 'debate' anyway.
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:40 pm
But it is not all there is to it.
What I was after from this thread was seeing some lights in the arguments such as, when the livings like us who has never experienced death directly in our own life, can discuss the topic like this in any logical and meaningful manner, and in metaphysical sense.
Yes we can. All the True, Right, Accurate, and Correct answers in Life can be found, through logically reasoned, peaceful discussions.
Zarathustra wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:40 pm
Or would it be the case of blind people describing the nature of elephant, after touching one elephant's leg.
But what is there about 'death' that you still do not yet understand?
If you let us know that, then we can fill you in with the Right answers.
Also, I suggest LOOKING AT the whole elephant, and not just one leg, that is; if you Truly do want to SEE the whole, picture. And, by the way, physical blindness has absolutely no affect on this at all.
The mind is our shepherd........ We will dwell in the house of the mind forever.
What is it about death that YOU don't understand?
Re: Death as Metaphysical Subject?
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:44 pm
by Zarathustra
jayjacobus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:40 pm
What is it about death that YOU don't understand?
What do you understand about death?