Fine.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:30 amNo, I don't. I think consciousness is only possible to living entities (organisms).attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:52 amI agree that consciousness as we know it, is an attribute (and not physical) of the human mind - which is within, yes a biological form, but this is only a limitation of what we know about consciousness by way of what appears around us in the form of life.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:47 pm
Let's make it simple. Intelligence is not a thing, not a substance or entity, it is an attribute of some living organisms. It cannot exist independently of those organisms. The organisms I know with that attribute are human beings, it is, along with volition, and rationality the nature of human consciousness called the human mind.
So again, and worded slightly different: Do you think it plausible\possible that a conscious intelligence can exist as an attribute of a non-biological form?
Of course I am interested in your views, you appear to have a modicum for rational debate, which unfortunately is becoming rare on this forum.attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:52 amI never disputed that.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:47 pmThere is no such thing as a non-biological form of life. It is, in fact, a contradiction in terms. "Bio," means living, "biological," means pertaining to life. You cannot have life that does not pertain to life, and you cannot have a non-material form of life.
RC:- The links were provided only if you were truly interested in my views. It is frustrating to me when others expect you to explain your views in terms of their short attention spans. One's epistemology or ontology cannot be explained in 30 words or less.attofishpi wrote:I did have a little dabble into the 2nd link there, I don't generally like links within debates I have to admit (unless the thread I am debating within is on a topic I have little to know idea about!) - glad to see we share similar interests, have you read anything by David Chalmers, if so, do you have any opinion on his endeavour to scientifically understand consciousness?RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:47 pmIf you believe there can intelligence independent of an human being, fine. I'm not going to change your mind. Here's what I know about life, consciousness, and mind:
The Nature of Life
The Nature of Consciousness
The Nature of the Mind
However, this thread is not about those views per se, hence my skim.
Yes you certainly stick to you guns about what you observe via those senses.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:47 pmMy views are similar Chalmers except for his dualism. I agree that consciousness is not physical but not that it is ontologically distinct from the physical, but simply another attribute of material existence and not possible independent of physical organisms. I make the same distinction about life, which he neglects.
Apparently Dark Energy/Matter exists and makes up a far greater percentage of that which we can actually observe via our senses (implications then, our senses indeed are rendering sweet F.A. of what the universe is apparently mostly comprised of.)
Naaaw. R U going to hurt my feelings? GO 4 IT!!RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:47 pmYes. You do not want to know what I think of it.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:46 pm So, have you only skimmed my OP? (which was updated as per Age's questions)
Or, have you read all the detail, and viewed the imagery relating to that detail?
I most certainly do want to know what you think about it. I expect you are going to attack or at least question my 'psyche' (which is absurd from an atheist POV since psyche relates to 'soul') - so to put it in atheist terms, you are going to challenge my perception of reality, indeed, what I have projected via the art combined with language (that you will point out are not anomalies, but if anything, at best, coincidence) - ...and that indeed, it appears I am showing psychotic links, things that are clearly IRRATIONAL.
or. R U going to surprise me!!!?
..I look forward to it.