Philosophy Now Forum

Of course, they do (we know the difference between a person who knows from the one who does not know). All conscious phenomena are irrelevant in what is going on in matter since matter behaves according to the laws of nature. Therefore, thoughts are irrelevant which is a contradiction since we know that thoughts affect reality.

Thought can steer the body into action. This is the only chance we have of using thought to affect reality.

Thoughts are part of reality in the broader, contemporary sense of "reality," and of course thoughts motivate actions. So yes.

bahman wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 2:39 am Of course, they do (we know the difference between a person who knows from the one who does not know). All conscious phenomena are irrelevant in what is going on in matter since matter behaves according to the laws of nature. Therefore, thoughts are irrelevant which is a contradiction since we know that thoughts affect reality.

Not sure what a Thought is or what Reality is, but Conscious Desires can affect the Physical World while they are being satisfied.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 8:45 am Thought can steer the body into action.

How? Could you control the electrons in your brain? How a conscious experience, such as thought, can affect the motion of the electrons in your brain?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 8:45 am This is the only chance we have of using thought to affect reality.

It is easy to say. Hard to prove.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:04 pm Thoughts are part of reality in the broader, contemporary sense of "reality," and of course thoughts motivate actions. So yes.

Can we agree that the matter behaves according to the laws of physics?

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:19 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 2:39 am Of course, they do (we know the difference between a person who knows from the one who does not know). All conscious phenomena are irrelevant in what is going on in matter since matter behaves according to the laws of nature. Therefore, thoughts are irrelevant which is a contradiction since we know that thoughts affect reality.

Not sure what a Thought is or what Reality is,

I know what thought and reality are.

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:19 pm but Conscious Desires can affect the Physical World while they are being satisfied.

How something which is irrelevant can affect reality.

bahman wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:04 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:04 pm Thoughts are part of reality in the broader, contemporary sense of "reality," and of course thoughts motivate actions. So yes.

Can we agree that the matter behaves according to the laws of physics?

I don't agree with that, no. I'm not a realist on physical laws.

I tawt I taw a puddy tat

-Imp

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:27 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:04 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:04 pm Thoughts are part of reality in the broader, contemporary sense of "reality," and of course thoughts motivate actions. So yes.

Can we agree that the matter behaves according to the laws of physics?

I don't agree with that, no. I'm not a realist on physical laws.

So matter behaves arbitrarily? That is the only option left.

bahman wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:59 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:27 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:04 pm
Can we agree that the matter behaves according to the laws of physics?

I don't agree with that, no. I'm not a realist on physical laws.

So matter behaves arbitrarily? That is the only option left.

No, "Either there are physical laws that matter behaves or it behaves arbitrarily" is a false dichotomy.

A big problem with "there are physical laws that matter behaves" is accounting for just what the heck physical laws ARE ontologically. I'm trying to get you to deal with that issue, since you accept that there are physical laws, but you're avoiding addressing it.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:24 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:59 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:27 pm

I don't agree with that, no. I'm not a realist on physical laws.

So matter behaves arbitrarily? That is the only option left.

No, "Either there are physical laws that matter behaves or it behaves arbitrarily" is a false dichotomy.

Why? There is no other option?

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:24 pm A big problem with "there are physical laws that matter behaves" is accounting for just what the heck physical laws ARE ontologically. I'm trying to get you to deal with that issue, since you accept that there are physical laws, but you're avoiding addressing it.

Physical laws exist as thoughts in the mind of intelligent agents only. Thought is a substance and has a form.

bahman wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:30 pm Why? There is no other option?

"Matter behaves non-arbitrarily without following physical laws" is a third option.

Physical laws exist as thoughts in the mind of intelligent agents only. Thought is a substance and has a form.

Right, so how exactly does, say, a star a million light years away from us obey our thoughts?

bahman wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:03 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 8:45 am Thought can steer the body into action.

How? Could you control the electrons in your brain? How a conscious experience, such as thought, can affect the motion of the electrons in your brain?

How did you get up in the morning?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 8:45 am This is the only chance we have of using thought to affect reality.

It is easy to say. Hard to prove.

RUbbish. All you have to do is get our of bed

bahman wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 2:39 am Of course, they do (we know the difference between a person who knows from the one who does not know). All conscious phenomena are irrelevant in what is going on in matter since matter behaves according to the laws of nature. Therefore, thoughts are irrelevant which is a contradiction since we know that thoughts affect reality.

Dear bahman

Is it not perhaps more accurate to say that thoughts affect perceptions?

And, as one’s actions much depend on one’s perception, thoughts do affect what occurs in reality but not “reality” as in laws of physics.


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