Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality

[vegetariantaxidermy]

There is nothing very mysterious here. We aren't used to seeing faces upside down. When you are aware of the experiment the face on the right doesn't look so 'normal' after all.

Note my response above.

Nah, we are not use to seeing most objects upside down. Re faces, we do see them upside down in pictures very often, while someone is sleeping and other occasions.
But the above experiment is only triggered with faces but not objects.

Why?

Because face recognition is very critical for survival in recognition of those [parents, kins, in-group, providers, etc.] who are pro-survival from those who are a threat to our survival. Thus whatever the distortion the brain will attempt to refit the image as an average normal face instead of having to make sense of it all the time which could distract one from focusing on what is critical to survive.

Extrapolating from the above,
that is how the mind deceived the person by throwing in the idea God [as a life saving crutch] when the person [natural to the majority] is psychologically desperate [subliminally].

What objects did they use for the experiment? Here, the eyes, mouth etc. are all still in their correct place, and the nose is the same.

[Veritas Aequitas]

There is nothing very mysterious here. We aren't used to seeing faces upside down. When you are aware of the experiment the face on the right doesn't look so 'normal' after all.

Note my response above.

Nah, we are not use to seeing most objects upside down. Re faces, we do see them upside down in pictures very often, while someone is sleeping and other occasions.
But the above experiment is only triggered with faces but not objects.

Why?

Because face recognition is very critical for survival in recognition of those [parents, kins, in-group, providers, etc.] who are pro-survival from those who are a threat to our survival. Thus whatever the distortion the brain will attempt to refit the image as an average normal face instead of having to make sense of it all the time which could distract one from focusing on what is critical to survive.

Extrapolating from the above,
that is how the mind deceived the person by throwing in the idea God [as a life saving crutch] when the person [natural to the majority] is psychologically desperate [subliminally].

What objects did they use for the experiment? Here, the eyes, mouth etc. are all still in their correct place, and the nose is the same.

The experiment here is specifically a full face.

Turning over distorted objects like tables, chairs, cups, and other physical things do not work with this experiment.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Note my response above.

Nah, we are not use to seeing most objects upside down. Re faces, we do see them upside down in pictures very often, while someone is sleeping and other occasions.
But the above experiment is only triggered with faces but not objects.

Why?

Because face recognition is very critical for survival in recognition of those [parents, kins, in-group, providers, etc.] who are pro-survival from those who are a threat to our survival. Thus whatever the distortion the brain will attempt to refit the image as an average normal face instead of having to make sense of it all the time which could distract one from focusing on what is critical to survive.

Extrapolating from the above,
that is how the mind deceived the person by throwing in the idea God [as a life saving crutch] when the person [natural to the majority] is psychologically desperate [subliminally].

What objects did they use for the experiment? Here, the eyes, mouth etc. are all still in their correct place, and the nose is the same.

The experiment here is specifically a full face.

Turning over distorted objects like tables, chairs, cups, and other physical things do not work with this experiment.

You are the one who said ''the above experiment is only triggered with faces but not objects.'' So what objects did they use to come to this conclusion?
If you turned over a whole head completely, with hair and nose included, then I am sure the result would be the same as if you turned over 'other objects'.

[Veritas Aequitas]

The experiment here is specifically a full face.

Turning over distorted objects like tables, chairs, cups, and other physical things do not work with this experiment.

You are the one who said ''the above experiment is only triggered with faces but not objects.'' So what objects did they use to come to this conclusion?
Well if you turned over a whole head completely with hair and nose included then I am sure the result would be the same as if you turned over 'other objects'.

Nope.
You can try it yourself.
Take a clock and bent one of its hand, turn it over and ask someone to look at it. They will see the bent hand and will not be deceived into looking at a normal clock.
Do that to a book, cup, table, etc.

Do it to any image of a full face, then your see the effect;
-wait a while for the gif to flip over.



note the terrible deception our mind has done to us!

[vegetariantaxidermy]

The experiment here is specifically a full face.

Turning over distorted objects like tables, chairs, cups, and other physical things do not work with this experiment.

You are the one who said ''the above experiment is only triggered with faces but not objects.'' So what objects did they use to come to this conclusion?
Well if you turned over a whole head completely with hair and nose included then I am sure the result would be the same as if you turned over 'other objects'.

Nope.
You can try it yourself.
Take a clock and bent one of its hand, turn it over and ask someone to look at it. They will see the bent hand and will not be deceived into looking at a normal clock.
Do that to a book, cup, table, etc.

Do it to any image of a full face, then your see the effect;
-wait a while for the gif to flip over.



note the terrible deception our mind has done to us!

You will have to show an example using an inanimate object then. I'm not prepared to destroy a clock.

[Veritas Aequitas]

Nope.
You can try it yourself.
Take a clock and bent one of its hand, turn it over and ask someone to look at it. They will see the bent hand and will not be deceived into looking at a normal clock.
Do that to a book, cup, table, etc.

Do it to any image of a full face, then your see the effect;
-wait a while for the gif to flip over.



note the terrible deception our mind has done to us!

You will have to show an example using an inanimate object then. I'm not prepared to destroy a clock.

You can always get a picture of a clock or any non-full-face objects.
Just do some smudges/changes [like the above] and turn over the picture/image.

[Davyboi]

I kind of understand what you are saying, the mind can distort, alter. But there is some part of are consciousness that is still not convinced, for example the two faces you shown me, at a first glance they do look the same, but part of my thinking knew the one on the right wasn't right. As I looked again I could see subtle signs, the mouth, wasn't right..I was aware of it...I will be truthful with you tho, I was surprised and amazed when I turned the faces around..how much my mind had deceived me and how distorted the image actually was.

Thus this is a direct experience and proof that your mind has deceived you.

If you turn the image around, you will see the distorted face. The point is even after you have known the fact, your mind will still deceive you at all times as far as this image is concern.

There are many other examples to prove how your mind deceives you of 'what is reality' but those re faces are very significant.

From the above and many other examples of deception by your mind, you MUST ask, are there any else that you are deceived by your mind and you are not aware of. If you explore there are perhaps thousands of situations where your mind is deceiving you [even now] whilst you were not aware of them until informed and explained.

There are also many types of deception by the mind, i.e. senses and empirical, mental and transcendental. Those illusions of the senses [sight, audio, smell, etc.] are easily to explain but those that are mental and transcendental [the transcendental illusion of God ] are very difficult to explain and comprehend.

A critical question you MUST ask, is the whole of conscious reality a deception by the mind.
Yes, that is the answer of the OP.

If the whole of conscious reality is a hallucination [deception], thus the conscious cognition of God is also a deception by the mind.

Then you have to ask WHY and HOW is that so?

My thesis [as raised by others as well] is the cognition of a God is an illusion from a deception of the mind [a defense mechanism] to deal with some very desperate psychology driven by an inherent unavoidable existential crisis which I had grouped and labelled as from "zombie parasites."

I Carnt argue you are right in one sense, my mind was decieved, even tho I knew it, I didn't realize to what extent! And I have taken the time to look at the faces again, looking at them , I still see them as the same. Even tho I know they aren't. Which makes me wonder why? Maybe my brain needs teaching.
I took a snapshot of the faces on my mobile phone, and turned the images around to show the distorted veiw, and placed it next to my tablet, showing the fake identical images..guess what? After a bit of time and concentration, the distorted image became clear, I could see the deception..try it! It works! I then took the phone image away, then looked again, at first glance they still looked similar, but if you take the time , the deception shows itself!

[Veritas Aequitas]

I Carnt argue you are right in one sense, my mind was decieved, even tho I knew it, I didn't realize to what extent! And I have taken the time to look at the faces again, looking at them , I still see them as the same. Even tho I know they aren't. Which makes me wonder why?

Maybe my brain needs teaching.

I took a snapshot of the faces on my mobile phone, and turned the images around to show the distorted veiw, and placed it next to my tablet, showing the fake identical images..guess what? After a bit of time and concentration, the distorted image became clear, I could see the deception..try it! It works! I then took the phone image away, then looked again, at first glance they still looked similar, but if you take the time , the deception shows itself!

Great job! What I appreciate is your drive/propensity to explore rather than being defensive like most of others.

The point with the deception by the mind is the delusions come in many types and of many degrees of complexity and difficulty for most people to be aware and explain.

Note this 'simple' illusion/delusion of the sense/empirical type.


In the above case of the simple Hering Illusion, just erase the radial lines and one will see a two straight parallel lines instead of the bent ones.
As you have done with the face illusion, one can also train one's mind to see the parallel lines by focusing on them for some time.
One can do that for all the deceptions by the mind because there is truth and a lie [falsehood] which could be separated if we consciously make the attempt to see them with alternating attention.

The normal-distorted face illusion as highlighted above is of medium complexity. This deception is exposed with the experiment done above and you went one step further to train your mind to keep the deception in mind.
Note the deception is still there as projected by the lower mind, but it is your higher rational mind that is overriding what is projected by the lower mind.

There are deception of high complexity in both sense/empirical and transcendental illusion/deceptions.
In the case of sense/empirical deceptions, one example is the sense of feel [touch] being deception of a real feel of hardness of hard physical object.
Take a piece of steel which is conventionally hard to the touch. But this is a deception because the molecules and atoms are so compact and their electrons are moving at the speed of light. This is difficult to expose using sense/empirical means. However one can train our higher reason to understand the illusion and deception.

Another of the very difficult to grasp deception/illusion is the transcendental type of illusion that do not involve the sense/empirical elements but rather entails the faculty of reason only, i.e. purely thoughts only.

One example of the transcendental illusion/deception is that of the idea of God where the brain/mind deceive the person to believe there is a real God to the extent of sending 'down' its holy message/texts via a chosen messenger/prophet. The consequences of this deception is the terrible evil and violent acts by believers amid whatever good that arise from it.
This is a lie/falsehood/deception by the brain/mind which is very complex. However if one were to train one's brain/mind, one can see through it as a deception. In this case, it would be advisable for one to find alternative beliefs to replace it because there are underlying terrible psychological impulses and pains involved.

The question is how to train one's brain/mind to understand the the idea of God as a very necessary deception/falsehood/lie? It is like, it is not easy take the risk to learn how to swim while clinging to a branch in the middle of a deep ocean in a potential drowning scenario.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

I kind of understand what you are saying, the mind can distort, alter. But there is some part of are consciousness that is still not convinced, for example the two faces you shown me, at a first glance they do look the same, but part of my thinking knew the one on the right wasn't right. As I looked again I could see subtle signs, the mouth, wasn't right..I was aware of it...I will be truthful with you tho, I was surprised and amazed when I turned the faces around..how much my mind had deceived me and how distorted the image actually was.

Thus this is a direct experience and proof that your mind has deceived you.

If you turn the image around, you will see the distorted face. The point is even after you have known the fact, your mind will still deceive you at all times as far as this image is concern.

There are many other examples to prove how your mind deceives you of 'what is reality' but those re faces are very significant.

From the above and many other examples of deception by your mind, you MUST ask, are there any else that you are deceived by your mind and you are not aware of. If you explore there are perhaps thousands of situations where your mind is deceiving you [even now] whilst you were not aware of them until informed and explained.

There are also many types of deception by the mind, i.e. senses and empirical, mental and transcendental. Those illusions of the senses [sight, audio, smell, etc.] are easily to explain but those that are mental and transcendental [the transcendental illusion of God ] are very difficult to explain and comprehend.

A critical question you MUST ask, is the whole of conscious reality a deception by the mind.
Yes, that is the answer of the OP.

If the whole of conscious reality is a hallucination [deception], thus the conscious cognition of God is also a deception by the mind.

Then you have to ask WHY and HOW is that so?

My thesis [as raised by others as well] is the cognition of a God is an illusion from a deception of the mind [a defense mechanism] to deal with some very desperate psychology driven by an inherent unavoidable existential crisis which I had grouped and labelled as from "zombie parasites."

I Carnt argue you are right in one sense, my mind was decieved, even tho I knew it, I didn't realize to what extent! And I have taken the time to look at the faces again, looking at them , I still see them as the same. Even tho I know they aren't. Which makes me wonder why? Maybe my brain needs teaching.
I took a snapshot of the faces on my mobile phone, and turned the images around to show the distorted veiw, and placed it next to my tablet, showing the fake identical images..guess what? After a bit of time and concentration, the distorted image became clear, I could see the deception..try it! It works! I then took the phone image away, then looked again, at first glance they still looked similar, but if you take the time , the deception shows itself!

Do you have Aspergers? Apparently they have difficulty making sense of faces.

[Veritas Aequitas]

Do you have Aspergers? Apparently they have difficulty making sense of faces.

Where did you get the idea it has anything to do with Aspergers?

Those with problem of face recognition is Prosopagnosia;

Prosopagnosia, also called face blindness,[2] is a cognitive disorder of face perception in which the ability to recognize familiar faces, including one's own face (self-recognition), is impaired, while other aspects of visual processing (e.g., object discrimination) and intellectual functioning (e.g., decision-making) remain intact.
-wiki

Prosopagnosia is not related to the above experiment at all. The Prosopagnosia patient can still recognize a full face as a human face, but only have problem associating the face with a person's name or identity. For example if the person (American] is shown a face of Obama he won't be able to recognize the face as Obama like what all normal adult Americans would be able to do easily.

Note in the above experiment, ALL humans who have not been informed of the illusion will always see two 'normal' faces at first sight and subsequent until they have been told there is something wrong with the image.

So there is nothing wrong with Davyboi views at all instead praise should be given for his initiative to train his brain to override the impulses of the lower brain. This is what 'impulse controls' is all about.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Do you have Aspergers? Apparently they have difficulty making sense of faces.

Where did you get the idea it has anything to do with Aspergers?

Those with problem of face recognition is Prosopagnosia;

Prosopagnosia, also called face blindness,[2] is a cognitive disorder of face perception in which the ability to recognize familiar faces, including one's own face (self-recognition), is impaired, while other aspects of visual processing (e.g., object discrimination) and intellectual functioning (e.g., decision-making) remain intact.
-wiki

Prosopagnosia is not related to the above experiment at all. The Prosopagnosia patient can still recognize a full face as a human face, but only have problem associating the face with a person's name or identity. For example if the person (American] is shown a face of Obama he won't be able to recognize the face as Obama like what all normal adult Americans would be able to do easily.

Note in the above experiment, ALL humans who have not been informed of the illusion will always see two 'normal' faces at first sight and subsequent until they have been told there is something wrong with the image.

So there is nothing wrong with Davyboi views at all instead praise should be given for his initiative to train his brain to override the impulses of the lower brain. This is what 'impulse controls' is all about.

True. People with Aspergers can have problems with facial expressions and interpreting them. So-called 'face blindness' is different--Stephen Fry supposedly has it--but I find that a bit difficult to believe.

[Davyboi]

I Carnt argue you are right in one sense, my mind was decieved, even tho I knew it, I didn't realize to what extent! And I have taken the time to look at the faces again, looking at them , I still see them as the same. Even tho I know they aren't. Which makes me wonder why?

Maybe my brain needs teaching.

I took a snapshot of the faces on my mobile phone, and turned the images around to show the distorted veiw, and placed it next to my tablet, showing the fake identical images..guess what? After a bit of time and concentration, the distorted image became clear, I could see the deception..try it! It works! I then took the phone image away, then looked again, at first glance they still looked similar, but if you take the time , the deception shows itself!

Great job! What I appreciate is your drive/propensity to explore rather than being defensive like most of others.

The point with the deception by the mind is the delusions come in many types and of many degrees of complexity and difficulty for most people to be aware and explain.

Note this 'simple' illusion/delusion of the sense/empirical type.


In the above case of the simple Hering Illusion, just erase the radial lines and one will see a two straight parallel lines instead of the bent ones.
As you have done with the face illusion, one can also train one's mind to see the parallel lines by focusing on them for some time.
One can do that for all the deceptions by the mind because there is truth and a lie [falsehood] which could be separated if we consciously make the attempt to see them with alternating attention.

The normal-distorted face illusion as highlighted above is of medium complexity. This deception is exposed with the experiment done above and you went one step further to train your mind to keep the deception in mind.
Note the deception is still there as projected by the lower mind, but it is your higher rational mind that is overriding what is projected by the lower mind.

There are deception of high complexity in both sense/empirical and transcendental illusion/deceptions.
In the case of sense/empirical deceptions, one example is the sense of feel [touch] being deception of a real feel of hardness of hard physical object.
Take a piece of steel which is conventionally hard to the touch. But this is a deception because the molecules and atoms are so compact and their electrons are moving at the speed of light. This is difficult to expose using sense/empirical means. However one can train our higher reason to understand the illusion and deception.

Another of the very difficult to grasp deception/illusion is the transcendental type of illusion that do not involve the sense/empirical elements but rather entails the faculty of reason only, i.e. purely thoughts only.

One example of the transcendental illusion/deception is that of the idea of God where the brain/mind deceive the person to believe there is a real God to the extent of sending 'down' its holy message/texts via a chosen messenger/prophet. The consequences of this deception is the terrible evil and violent acts by believers amid whatever good that arise from it.
This is a lie/falsehood/deception by the brain/mind which is very complex. However if one were to train one's brain/mind, one can see through it as a deception. In this case, it would be advisable for one to find alternative beliefs to replace it because there are underlying terrible psychological impulses and pains involved.

The question is how to train one's brain/mind to understand the the idea of God as a very necessary deception/falsehood/lie? It is like, it is not easy take the risk to learn how to swim while clinging to a branch in the middle of a deep ocean in a potential drowning scenario.

I find this all very interesting, nice one mate! I think I need to study this more, Google here I come! Lol

[Veritas Aequitas]

True. People with Aspergers can have problems with facial expressions and interpreting them. So-called 'face blindness' is different--Stephen Fry supposedly has it--but I find that a bit difficult to believe.

Those with Aspergers has a wide range of symptoms but I think the problem of facial expressions is not the main one. One of the main problem Aspergers is interpreting emotions i.e. alexithymia which could include facial expressions of emotions among others.

This is off topic from the face-illusion experiment above which focus on brain-deception in normal people.

[dxoutkast]

You are not the image you see in the mirror
.

You don't see an "image" when you look at the mirror, you see your OWN reflection. Your own face. That's why glasses work, eye floaters exist, vision problems in the retina exist and surgery correct your vision.... because...vision.
Your age-old boomer religious pattern of thinking is longer dead, serves no function to the modern world and only make you look like a neanderthal.

Me SeE nO ReFlEcTiOn, Me No EyEs, Me BeCoMeS ThE mIrRoR. ME nO bRaIn, Me ReLiEs PaRsAnAl AxPeRanCE

[dxoutkast]

I am raising this OP is this section to support my point, the idea of God is actually a transcendental-hallucination out of this set of empirical-hallucination proposed by Anil Seth.


Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality
Anil Seth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyu7v7nWzfo

Right now, billions of neurons in your brain are working together to generate a conscious experience -- and not just any conscious experience, your experience of the world around you and of yourself within it.
How does this happen?

According to neuroscientist Anil Seth, we're all hallucinating all the time; when we agree about our hallucinations, we call it "reality."

Join Seth for a delightfully disorienting talk that may leave you questioning the very nature of your existence.

Long ago, V. S. Ramachandran had made the same claim,

“Indeed, the line between perceiving and hallucinating is not as crisp as we like to think.
In a sense, when we look at the world, we are hallucinating all the time. One could almost regard perception as the act of choosing the one hallucination that best fits the incoming data.”

― V.S. Ramachandran, The Tell-Tale Brain: A Neuroscientist's Quest for What Makes Us Human

Views?

So the brain is a hallucination?

When did you read anything even claiming the brain being a hallucination? These "neuroscientists" are not claiming such thing. They claim MOST of what we see COULD BE seen as hallucination. Anil Seth is a new ager wooist. Most of what he says in his presentation is wrong. He doesnt understand direct realism vs hallucination. And no, we do not hallucinate most of reality. And we CONSCIOUSLY PERCEIVE reality, there is a gap between conscious and reality. They are not in the same phrase as he states.