Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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LaraWrite
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by LaraWrite »

I do not think that he will be saved, this is purely my opinion. I just think that he doesn't deserve it.
Dubious
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Dubious »

Nick_A wrote: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:28 am
Dubious wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:21 pm
Nick_A wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:43 pmI may be forced to drink the hemlock in the future but still have a few years left to "annoy the Great Beast."
Don't flatter yourself; you're no danger to anyone and the great beast as you call it doesn't even know you exist. You'll have to arrange other ways to accomplish martyrdom! Good Luck! :lol:
Such an insult cannot remain unchallenged. I'll have you know that the Surfire Hemlock Company with the full backing of the Great Beast is already planning to replace the ten Most Wanted List with the Ten Most Unwanted List. I have been informed that I am in the running for #7. I believe I should be in the top 5 but 7 is a good start. So never underestimate my ability to annoy the Great Beast.
You would likely be the first on the Ten Most Unwanted List on this site. Don't short-change yourself when it comes to being unwanted. You are the crowned member in that elite group!

The Great Beast has once again spoken. Hail the Great Beast who could not care less what you're opinion of it is but gladly allows you to continue in your Sisyphean efforts.
Nick_A
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Nick_A »

Dubious you are blissfully unaware of the deep state as it exists in America. It controls everything and is intolerant of all who support the attraction to eros, common sense, and Simone Weil. Its agenda simply cannot be questioned and these interests invite unwanted questioning. Unfortunately the agenda will not allow me to stand alone as number 7 and insist I be part of group. I have fought hard for my individuality but soldiers of the deep state insist I can be nothing but part of an unwanted collective. The agenda doesn't recognize individuality.

It is those like you who will be absorbed. Resistance for all blind deniers is futile. It is just a matter of time. I will drink the hemlock and you will be absorbed and become nothing but a conditioned thing reacting to the whims of the Great Beast being controlled by the depths and globalist leaders of the deep state. Who is better off? For you it is a matter of opinion.
Dubious
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Dubious »

Nick_A wrote: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:31 pm Dubious you are blissfully unaware of the deep state as it exists in America. It controls everything and is intolerant of all who support the attraction to eros, common sense, and Simone Weil. Its agenda simply cannot be questioned and these interests invite unwanted questioning. Unfortunately the agenda will not allow me to stand alone as number 7 and insist I be part of group. I have fought hard for my individuality but soldiers of the deep state insist I can be nothing but part of an unwanted collective. The agenda doesn't recognize individuality.

It is those like you who will be absorbed. Resistance for all blind deniers is futile. It is just a matter of time. I will drink the hemlock and you will be absorbed and become nothing but a conditioned thing reacting to the whims of the Great Beast being controlled by the depths and globalist leaders of the deep state. Who is better off? For you it is a matter of opinion.
My, my you do love to sermonize and pretend to be holier-than-thou with your insights. It's not the deep state that will force you to drink hemlock but the recognition, if it EVER comes, on how fixed, claustrophobic and pathetic your ceaselessly repeated mantras and quotes are concerning what you have no comprehension of starting with secularism.

It's secularism being non-elitist which offers the greatest opposition to the sinister objectives of the Deep State just as it historically did against the deep state of theism. Both are and were ruled by internal power paradigms as served by the most concentrated cabal in each group. Secularism, in principle, is the opposition to any such attempted centralization which is one reason why these monopolizations of power must always be kept Sub Rosa as much as possible.

One thing I find really disgusting about people like you is that power and control, like the deep state itself is also one of your objectives, the difference being, you approach it from the opposite end in terms of philosophic superiority and enlightenment; and yet with a mind like yours, you would be just as adamant to defend a deep state philosophy. When thinking retreats, indoctrination prevails. I write this in spite of knowing, as everyone else already knows, that discussing anything with you is useless. A petrified brain has no moving parts.
Nick_A
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Nick_A »

Dubious wrote: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:20 pm
Nick_A wrote: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:31 pm Dubious you are blissfully unaware of the deep state as it exists in America. It controls everything and is intolerant of all who support the attraction to eros, common sense, and Simone Weil. Its agenda simply cannot be questioned and these interests invite unwanted questioning. Unfortunately the agenda will not allow me to stand alone as number 7 and insist I be part of group. I have fought hard for my individuality but soldiers of the deep state insist I can be nothing but part of an unwanted collective. The agenda doesn't recognize individuality.

It is those like you who will be absorbed. Resistance for all blind deniers is futile. It is just a matter of time. I will drink the hemlock and you will be absorbed and become nothing but a conditioned thing reacting to the whims of the Great Beast being controlled by the depths and globalist leaders of the deep state. Who is better off? For you it is a matter of opinion.
My, my you do love to sermonize and pretend to be holier-than-thou with your insights. It's not the deep state that will force you to drink hemlock but the recognition, if it EVER comes, on how fixed, claustrophobic and pathetic your ceaselessly repeated mantras and quotes are concerning what you have no comprehension of starting with secularism.

It's secularism being non-elitist which offers the greatest opposition to the sinister objectives of the Deep State just as it historically did against the deep state of theism. Both are and were ruled by internal power paradigms as served by the most concentrated cabal in each group. Secularism, in principle, is the opposition to any such attempted centralization which is one reason why these monopolizations of power must always be kept Sub Rosa as much as possible.

One thing I find really disgusting about people like you is that power and control, like the deep state itself is also one of your objectives, the difference being, you approach it from the opposite end in terms of philosophic superiority and enlightenment; and yet with a mind like yours, you would be just as adamant to defend a deep state philosophy. When thinking retreats, indoctrination prevails. I write this in spite of knowing, as everyone else already knows, that discussing anything with you is useless. A petrified brain has no moving parts.
You have no desire for or respect those who strive for inner freedom. You don't even know what it is intellectually. That is why you are an advocate for secularism. By definition it asserts that it is the source of wisdom for Man. The Great Beast in all its glory must be presumed the ultimate source of wisdom. There is nothing else.

At least my drinking of the hemlock is an indication of awareness of the values making a free society and human conscious evolution possible. Your delight in drinking the kool-aid is just proof your egoistic gullibility.
seeds
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by seeds »

Nick_A wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:34 pm One essential difference is that you believe all seeds are equal and I don't.
Nick, I honestly don’t think that you presenting yourself as being some kind of cosmic equivalent of a KKK member is going to win you a lot of sympathy for your cause.

Furthermore, let me underscore (as in underline and bold) some of the words in one of the two Biblical quotes you posted...
the Bible wrote: And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified (Romans 8:28-30).
Because you are basically an atheist who doesn’t seem to hold the remotest inkling of a belief in the living, self-aware “personhood” of the Godhead represented in the Bible...

...it makes it absolutely amazing to me that you would assume that I would not notice the stunningly obvious hypocrisy of you using the Bible to support your arguments (especially in using quotes that are so rife with “personal” pronouns).

Now of course no one can stop you from quoting whatever or whomever you so desire.

However, if you are going to appeal to authority, then you might want to stick to the likes of Simone and Plato, and stay away from a source whose central and founding premise is something that you clearly do not hold to be true.
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Last edited by seeds on Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
seeds
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by seeds »

seeds wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:11 pm Yeah, yeah, I can already hear Dubious grumbling that it makes no impression on anyone because it’s all complete and utter nonsense.
Dubious wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:38 pm Dubious isn't quite the earth-bound hick you imagine. :)
I would never associate the word “hick” with the Dubious brand.

In fact, my impression is quite the opposite (as in sophisticated, measured, rational, and eloquent).

However (as I’m sure you will agree), that in no way suggests that our core views of reality are in sync.

It just means that I truly appreciate when someone like you actually takes pride in using critical thinking in their well-written responses.
_______
Nick_A
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Nick_A »

Seeds
Because you are basically an atheist who doesn’t seem to hold the remotest inkling of a belief in the living, self-aware “personhood” of the Godhead represented in the Bible...

...it makes it absolutely amazing to me that you would assume that I would not notice the stunningly obvious hypocrisy of you using the Bible to support your arguments (especially in using quotes that are so rife with “personal” pronouns).
Show me where the concept of the ONE as described by Plotinus is rejected in the Bible
The 'concept' of the One is not, properly speaking, a concept at all, since it is never explicitly defined by Plotinus, yet it is nevertheless the foundation and grandest expression of his philosophy. Plotinus does make it clear that no words can do justice to the power of the One; even the name, 'the One,' is inadequate, for naming already implies discursive knowledge, and since discursive knowledge divides or separates its objects in order to make them intelligible, the One cannot be known through the process of discursive reasoning (Ennead VI.9.4). Knowledge of the One is achieved through the experience of its 'power' (dunamis) and its nature, which is to provide a 'foundation' (arkhe) and location (topos) for all existents (VI.9.6). The 'power' of the One is not a power in the sense of physical or even mental action; the power of the One, as Plotinus speaks of it, is to be understood as the only adequate description of the 'manifestation' of a supreme principle that, by its very nature, transcends all predication and discursive understanding. This 'power,' then, is capable of being experienced, or known, only through contemplation (theoria), or the purely intellectual 'vision' of the source of all things. The One transcends all beings, and is not itself a being, precisely because all beings owe their existence and subsistence to their eternal contemplation of the dynamic manifestation(s) of the One. The One can be said to be the 'source' of all existents only insofar as every existent naturally and (therefore) imperfectly contemplates the various aspects of the One, as they are extended throughout the cosmos, in the form of either sensible or intelligible objects or existents. The perfect contemplation of the One, however, must not be understood as a return to a primal source; for the One is not, strictly speaking, a source or a cause, but rather the eternally present possibility -- or active making-possible -- of all existence, of Being (V.2.1). According to Plotinus, the unmediated vision of the 'generative power' of the One, to which existents are led by the Intelligence (V.9.2), results in an ecstatic dance of inspiration, not in a satiated torpor (VI.9.8); for it is the nature of the One to impart fecundity to existents -- that is to say: the One, in its regal, indifferent capacity as undiminishable potentiality of Being, permits both rapt contemplation and ecstatic, creative extension. These twin poles, this 'stanchion,' is the manifested framework of existence which the One produces, effortlessly (V.1.6). The One, itself, is best understood as the center about which the 'stanchion,' the framework of the cosmos, is erected (VI.9.8). This 'stanchion' or framework is the result of the contemplative activity of the Intelligence.
HE, a description of active rather than the passive or neutralizing elemental forces, refers to dunamis providing the 'foundation' (arkhe) and location (topos) for all existents”: the domain of LORD God

This is what I believe. An atheist by definition denies it and worships the Great Beast as its God and source of human meaning and purpose. How is belief in ONE an expression of atheism?
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Greta
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Greta »

seeds wrote: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:57 pm
Nick_A wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:34 pm One essential difference is that you believe all seeds are equal and I don't.
Nick, I honestly don’t think that you presenting yourself as being some kind of cosmic equivalent of a KKK member is going to win you a lot of sympathy for your cause.
How strange. I agree with Nick again. I completely agree that not all seeds are made equal. Sure. The part Nick gets wrong is that he seems to think that the differences are important. That's his big mistake - to conflate natural selection with spiritual value. In truth, we're all made out of the same stuff but in different configurations that are shaped by the environment over space and time.

We have bugger all say in who we become in life and vastly underestimate the extent to which environment shapes us. So you will never find, say, an Eskimo who is concerned with vegetarianism. They simply can't do that because their environment dictates who they are and what they can and can't do. In their case, at certain times of the year there is simply no vegetation to eat. The Eskimo Nenets were once called Samoyeds - "samoyed" meaning "self eater" in Russian. No doubt that happened when they ran out reindeer, seal and dog in deep winter. The cannibalism would not have been the result of poor morality or "bad seeds", just circumstance.

We tend to give ourselves too much credit and too much blame for our achievements and blunders. This delusion of empowerment no doubt helps to motivate us to make a difference in the small realm of freedom available to us - to do "better" than chance than if we didn't intervene. So this slight delusion is naturally and socially selected. But what is "better" in context? Refer back to environmental shaping and the social climate in which we live - it usually depends.

For instance, imagine a Nick style personality born and bred in Syria. He'd probably be out there with his buddies yelling "Allahu Akbar" and taking pot shots at people like us (me anyway) :lol:. Instead, he lectures us on concepts around the work of Weil and Needleman. Meanwhile, if I was born in Syria I'd long ago be pushing up daisies by now rather than clogging web bandwidth with idle thoughts. The Sun, Earth and Moon are effectively the conductors of our "show" and we are their meat puppets, only capable of "conducting" on our own small stage within the limits set us by genetics and our surroundings.

Everything that exists is both player and played, subject and object, within this shockingly complex and deep interconnected web of cause and effect in which we live. That some may be more complex, a bit smarter, wiser, kinder, practical, grounded, focused, etc matters not a jot. You simply have a life, you do it as well as you can manage within your internal and external limitations, then you snuff it and are recycled.

However, our attributes live on piecemeal in others. One of the most extraordinary things I've noticed since the advent of the internet is how often people think very much the same thoughts and feel very much the same things. We are unique in detail but not in general, and those generalities persist long after the individuals that embody them pass on.

// end soliloquy :)
Nick_A
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Nick_A »

Greta, Seeds, and Dubious

I know Christianity is politically incorrect around here but still even blind deniers should at least theoretically be open to a basic parable about seeds of the soul. The seeds don't automatically grow. The fact that they sre seeds of the essential human types is not the issue. The point is that the metaxu of life on earth in general assures the death of the great majority of these seeds. My concern for the societal metaxu which nourishes the seed of the soul. Secularism is dedicated to destroying the the metaxu neessry for the seed during its glorifiction of what it calls progress. Jesus said we need ears to hear (to understand) the following. Who has these ears?

Matthew 13 New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Sower

13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
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Greta
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Greta »

Nick_A wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:16 am Greta, Seeds, and Dubious

I know Christianity is politically incorrect around here ...
I know secularism is politically incorrect almost everywhere in the world but still even blind deniers of science would ideally at least theoretically be open to the evidence of evolution in the past and what that may tell us may happen in the future. However, they are not because "blind deniers" deny blindly :lol:

Humanity is not supposed to stop progressing, not "designed" to revert to Amish or Iron Age standards as seems your apparent ideal. That would only benefit those seeking to manipulate the naive, ie. moguls, politicians and theists. In fact, theism today is so parasitic and toxic that it's probably best left alone altogether by those who value reason and integrity.
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Nick_A »

Greta wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:37 am
Nick_A wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:16 am Greta, Seeds, and Dubious

I know Christianity is politically incorrect around here ...
I know secularism is politically incorrect almost everywhere in the world but still even blind deniers of science would ideally at least theoretically be open to the evidence of evolution in the past and what that may tell us may happen in the future. However, they are not because "blind deniers" deny blindly :lol:

Humanity is not supposed to stop progressing, not "designed" to revert to Amish or Iron Age standards as seems your apparent ideal. That would only benefit those seeking to manipulate the naive, ie. moguls, politicians and theists. In fact, theism today is so parasitic and toxic that it's probably best left alone altogether by those who value reason and integrity.
Secularized religion is still secularism. How can secularism be politically incorrect? It dominates and vivifies the spiritual darkness of the world. What could be more politically correct? If we didn't have all this political correctness we wouldn't cyclically end up with those like Hitler. Then where would we be?
“Nothing can have as its destination anything other than its origin. The contrary idea, the idea of progress, is poison.” ~ Simone Weil
For you progress is Man serving machines which live their life for them. Machines serving the soul of Man would further Man's conscious evolution. This idea is poison for secularism and would have to be shouted down in secular institutions of spiritual child abuse called schools and universities for their own protection.
seeds
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by seeds »

Nick_A wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:34 pm One essential difference is that you believe all seeds are equal and I don't.
seeds wrote: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:57 pm Nick, I honestly don’t think that you presenting yourself as being some kind of cosmic equivalent of a KKK member is going to win you a lot of sympathy for your cause.
Greta wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:14 am How strange. I agree with Nick again.
Greta, haven’t you learned by now that no matter how many times you extend an olive branch to Nick, he (the “terminator” of secularists like you) is always going to respond to you as described in this 23 sec. clip on YouTube - https://youtu.be/Cy2tjbihyCQ...

...(Nick, I’m just teasing you. :P)
Greta wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:14 am I completely agree that not all seeds are made equal.
Now I am well aware of the fact that you do not agree with my take on reality.

However, here’s my bottom line stance on this inequality of seeds business:

If there exists the possibility that our consciousness (our mind and soul) will survive the death of the body (the metaphorical “seed pod”) and awaken into a higher context of reality...

...and if in this higher context of reality we will each be able to endlessly evolve with an ever-growing and ever-fruitful purpose...

...then what I am suggesting is that whatever it is that made the gift of life possible for us in the first place will also make sure that no human will be denied this amazing destiny.

In other words, it’s either “all of us” or “none of us.”
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Skip
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Skip »

On balance, I'm opting for 'none'.
Still, i'd have enjoyed watching Vlad, Pol, Adolf and Donald duke it out for the bronze.
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Greta
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Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Greta »

Nick_A wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:06 am
Greta wrote:I know secularism is politically incorrect almost everywhere in the world but still even blind deniers of science would ideally at least theoretically be open to the evidence of evolution in the past and what that may tell us may happen in the future. However, they are not because "blind deniers" deny blindly :lol:

Humanity is not supposed to stop progressing, not "designed" to revert to Amish or Iron Age standards as seems your apparent ideal. That would only benefit those seeking to manipulate the naive, ie. moguls, politicians and theists. In fact, theism today is so parasitic and toxic that it's probably best left alone altogether by those who value reason and integrity.
Secularized religion is still secularism. How can secularism be politically incorrect? It dominates and vivifies the spiritual darkness of the world. What could be more politically correct? If we didn't have all this political correctness we wouldn't cyclically end up with those like Hitler. Then where would we be?
In reality, it's secularists who are demonised and attacked all around the world by theists, aside from in the far east and a few havens in the west. Thus, secularists are denied employment in many organisations in the US and cannot even hope to occupy the nation's leadership role. Talk about political correctness!! NOBODY is more PC than theists and the evidence is in the polity and legal system.

If you claim that organised religions are "secular" (a oxymoron, but let's humour you) then there is no such thing as "religious" - the concept disappears. So, no, religions are NOT secular. They never have been and never will be. That is exactly the point that you deny.
Nick_A wrote:For you progress is Man serving machines which live their life for them. Machines serving the soul of Man would further Man's conscious evolution. This idea is poison for secularism and would have to be shouted down in secular institutions of spiritual child abuse called schools and universities for their own protection.
You claim that "machines serving the souls of men" (not women) are "poison to secularism".

What are "machines serving the souls of men"? I would like to know what it is that I apparently find to be poison. I know it cannot be religion because you have already said that all religions are now "secular" and thus evil "servants of the Great Beast". So what are these machines that service the souls of men?

Is there a lot of lube involved in the servicing of a soul? Or does it that just necessary for the mental masturbation of a Man who imagines himself to be inherently superior to most others despite copious evidence to the contrary?
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