Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
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Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
I was thinking about starting a thread to inquire about and discuss Socrates as a historical figure but such a topic doesn't seem to fit in very well in any forum except maybe the "general" forum. But in some senses it doesn't seem like it should really go there either. It sort of seems like there should be a "History of Philosophy" forum or some sort of forum dedicated specifically to discussing the thoughts and ideas of past philosophers or great thinkers. What do others think? Good idea or bad idea?
Thanks.
Thanks.
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
Would it get misused a philosophy of history forum?
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
Hmm. Well, a stickied thread at the top of the forum could maybe spell out the difference for people. Maybe title the stickied thread: "This forum is History of Philosophy NOT Philosophy of History."FlashDangerpants wrote:Would it get misused a philosophy of history forum?
And/or
Since philosophy of history is also a very interesting topic right beside philosophy of science and philosophy of religion, why not have both a history of philosophy forum and a philosophy of history forum side by side?
Just some random thoughts.
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
The thing with philosophy is that, unlike almost all other endeavours, we don't distinguish our past from our present much, if at all. The ancient greeks may have lived and taught a long time ago, but what they said is treated today as material to be grappeled with, contested, debated and dissected as if it had been said yesterday. I am sure the history of philosophy is of interest to historians, but to us philosophers, there is little or no interest in it as a separate study. I reckon there's nothing one could say about any of the ideas of the old philosophers which can't be said under the appropriate contemporary headings of Ethics, Epistemology, Aesthetics, Religion etc.
Put simply, it's a mistake to imagine just because you can think of a forum heading we don't have, that there must be a need for it.
Put simply, it's a mistake to imagine just because you can think of a forum heading we don't have, that there must be a need for it.
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
Well, that's why I put it as a poll, to see what others thought of it.mickthinks wrote:The thing with philosophy is that, unlike almost all other endeavours, we don't distinguish our past from our present much, if at all. The ancient greeks may have lived and taught a long time ago, but what they said is treated today as material to be grappeled with, contested, debated and dissected as if it had been said yesterday. I am sure the history of philosophy is of interest to historians, but to us philosophers, there is little or no interest in it as a separate study. I reckon there's nothing one could say about any of the ideas of the old philosophers which can't be said under the appropriate contemporary headings of Ethics, Epistemology, Aesthetics, Religion etc.
Put simply, it's a mistake to imagine just because you can think of a forum heading we don't have, that there must be a need for it.
What about a forum titled "famous philosophers" or something. I'm sure many of us who have studied philosophy in the university have probably taken classes on the "history of philosophy". Just because you are not interested in the lives and thoughts of past philosophers (as historical figures) doesn't mean someone else may not be. It's still a very vibrant part of formal study in philosophy to study the philosophic systems of thought of famous historic philosophers.
Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
Well, that is one perspective.mickthinks wrote:The thing with philosophy is that, unlike almost all other endeavours, we don't distinguish our past from our present much, if at all. The ancient greeks may have lived and taught a long time ago, but what they said is treated today as material to be grappeled with, contested, debated and dissected as if it had been said yesterday. I am sure the history of philosophy is of interest to historians, but to us philosophers, there is little or no interest in it as a separate study. I reckon there's nothing one could say about any of the ideas of the old philosophers which can't be said under the appropriate contemporary headings of Ethics, Epistemology, Aesthetics, Religion etc.
Put simply, it's a mistake to imagine just because you can think of a forum heading we don't have, that there must be a need for it.
For myself I think all philosophy needs to be put into the context in which it was created. And also upon the philosophy that predated it.
And also I think modern arguments of the form " Socrates said this " or "Kant said that" are just ridiculous. If someone cannot argue philosophy from their own understanding of the issues and with regard to the modern world, they have no right to call themselves a philosopher.
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
History of philosophy is probably mostly an idle fascination (you could maybe say the same about some branches of philosophy such as aesthetics as well) but it is sometimes interesting to follow patterns that emerge and see old ideas occasionally rehashed in new fashion. However, some philosophers I think do have a certain timeless quality about them. Socrates is one. I think Socrates (as he is portrayed by Plato) really takes on an almost Christ-like quality in some respects. As with any good role model, I sometimes find myself wondering things like, "what would Socrates do in this situation."A_Seagull wrote:Well, that is one perspective.mickthinks wrote:The thing with philosophy is that, unlike almost all other endeavours, we don't distinguish our past from our present much, if at all. The ancient greeks may have lived and taught a long time ago, but what they said is treated today as material to be grappeled with, contested, debated and dissected as if it had been said yesterday. I am sure the history of philosophy is of interest to historians, but to us philosophers, there is little or no interest in it as a separate study. I reckon there's nothing one could say about any of the ideas of the old philosophers which can't be said under the appropriate contemporary headings of Ethics, Epistemology, Aesthetics, Religion etc.
Put simply, it's a mistake to imagine just because you can think of a forum heading we don't have, that there must be a need for it.
For myself I think all philosophy needs to be put into the context in which it was created. And also upon the philosophy that predated it.
And also I think modern arguments of the form " Socrates said this " or "Kant said that" are just ridiculous. If someone cannot argue philosophy from their own understanding of the issues and with regard to the modern world, they have no right to call themselves a philosopher.
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
History of Philosophy forum? Why would anyone want to outline the history of, mostly, ill-conceived ideas? I'm not going to waste my breath saying who is right, but ultimately, someone has to be. And the rest of philosophy either leads to that, or wastes our time.... *Blah!*
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
So should human beings not bother with studying their history because history has so much imperfection in it? Should astronomy students be oblivious to the history of their own discipline? Are all the ideas of past philosophers "ill-conceived"? Of course the answer to the last question would require one to actually study the history of philosophy in order to find out. I do question when university curriculums place specific requirements upon students to study things they may not be interested in but there may also be those who are genuinely interested in those things.Dalek Prime wrote:History of Philosophy forum? Why would anyone want to outline the history of, mostly, ill-conceived ideas? I'm not going to waste my breath saying who is right, but ultimately, someone has to be. And the rest of philosophy either leads to that, or wastes our time.... *Blah!*
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
No it wouldn't. It merely requires philosophical examination and criticism of those ideas, which can be carried out in one of our existing sub-forums.Gary Childress wrote: Of course the answer to the last question [Are all the ideas of past philosophers "ill-conceived"?} would require one to actually study the history of philosophy in order to find out.
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
You win. I'm not going to argue any further.mickthinks wrote:No it wouldn't. It merely requires philosophical examination and criticism of those ideas, which can be carried out in one of our existing sub-forums.Gary Childress wrote: Of course the answer to the last question [Are all the ideas of past philosophers "ill-conceived"?} would require one to actually study the history of philosophy in order to find out.
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
And if they are wrong? The ideas, that is? Should physicists study aether, because it was a big part of the past? Should biologists study homunculi?Gary Childress wrote:So should human beings not bother with studying their history because history has so much imperfection in it? Should astronomy students be oblivious to the history of their own discipline? Are all the ideas of past philosophers "ill-conceived"? Of course the answer to the last question would require one to actually study the history of philosophy in order to find out. I do question when university curriculums place specific requirements upon students to study things they may not be interested in but there may also be those who are genuinely interested in those things.Dalek Prime wrote:History of Philosophy forum? Why would anyone want to outline the history of, mostly, ill-conceived ideas? I'm not going to waste my breath saying who is right, but ultimately, someone has to be. And the rest of philosophy either leads to that, or wastes our time.... *Blah!*
Now Gary, I am big on history, so to suggest I'm saying 'don't study the past', as you suggest I'm doing, is silly. But to study that which, I will repeat, does not lead to truth, is still just a waste. And there is a truth out there, or in here, that we may find either unpalatable or camoflauged. But most here, I believe, are hear to argue minutiae and irrelevancies, instead of staring it down, or finding it.
Anyways, please don't suggest again that I am arguing for anti-intellectualism, just because it doesn't fit your interests.
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
I never said you are arguing for "anti-intellectualism" in the first place. That is a straw man. I'm merely saying that history of philosophy is interesting to some of us, however there really isn't a forum dedicated to it here. Everything has to be couched in terms of the subjects of the existing forums or else posted under the "general forum".Dalek Prime wrote:And if they are wrong? The ideas, that is? Should physicists study aether, because it was a big part of the past? Should biologists study homunculi?Gary Childress wrote:So should human beings not bother with studying their history because history has so much imperfection in it? Should astronomy students be oblivious to the history of their own discipline? Are all the ideas of past philosophers "ill-conceived"? Of course the answer to the last question would require one to actually study the history of philosophy in order to find out. I do question when university curriculums place specific requirements upon students to study things they may not be interested in but there may also be those who are genuinely interested in those things.Dalek Prime wrote:History of Philosophy forum? Why would anyone want to outline the history of, mostly, ill-conceived ideas? I'm not going to waste my breath saying who is right, but ultimately, someone has to be. And the rest of philosophy either leads to that, or wastes our time.... *Blah!*
Now Gary, I am big on history, so to suggest I'm saying 'don't study the past', as you suggest I'm doing, is silly. But to study that which, I will repeat, does not lead to truth, is still just a waste. And there is a truth out there, or in here, that we may find either unpalatable or camoflauged. But most here, I believe, are hear to argue minutiae and irrelevancies, instead of staring it down, or finding it.
Anyways, please don't suggest again that I am arguing for anti-intellectualism, just because it doesn't fit your interests.
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
Yeah. You never said it, but it felt implied. And if I feel it, then I dont feel it right for you to claim I raised a straw man. Anyways, I'll accept you didn't. I still stand by what I said.
So okay, you have interests there. Good. But whilst you are discussing it here, it could be raised in a thread, instead. Or in the book club, where it's discussed all the time.
Have you asked PN about it, directly?
So okay, you have interests there. Good. But whilst you are discussing it here, it could be raised in a thread, instead. Or in the book club, where it's discussed all the time.
Have you asked PN about it, directly?
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?
I can assure you there was no intention to "imply" such either. I haven't asked PN directly because I figured I ought to see what other users of the forum thought first. Hence the poll.Dalek Prime wrote:Yeah. You never said it, but it felt implied. And if I feel it, then I dont feel it right for you to claim I raised a straw man. Anyways, I'll accept you didn't. I still stand by what I said.
So okay, you have interests there. Good. But whilst you are discussing it here, it could be raised in a thread, instead. Or in the book club, where it's discussed all the time.
Have you asked PN about it, directly?