How responsible is the US for the rise of ISIS?

[Philosophy Explorer]

The war in Iraq is said to be a factor (don't want to hear anything about AEP or Ouzo on this thread which will be reported as being off-topic).

PhilX

[bobevenson]

The U.S. government improperly spends taxpayer money on any military action anywhere in the world that is not directly involved in the defense of the United States. This type of military activity would never be allowed under AEP jurisdiction. Since religion is the world's most dangerous institution, the anti-institutional principle of Ouzo directly addresses the threat of ISIS.

[Skip]

http://gwynnedyer.com/2014/isis-rises-in-iraq/

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Do you need to ask that? What was your first clue?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... are_btn_gp

"The Russian leader said he was surprised that the US media criticised Europe for its cruel treatment of migrants when the US was the main cause of the problem."

http://thediplomat.com/2014/08/iran-did ... is-we-did/

http://www.euractiv.com/sections/global ... sis-317343

These are all highly reputable sites, written by excellent writers.
Skip: I'm surprised you would post a link to such badly-written rubbish.

I think a deal should be made. The US sends Bush Jr. over to Iraq to be publicly beheaded by ISIS, on condition that ISIS stops beheading innocent people. Plus, the US and its little bitch the UK, should be taking ALL of the refugees.

[Skip]

I thought he did a pretty good job on the time-line. Didn't nominate him for a Pulitzer.

[Hobbes' Choice]

The war in Iraq is said to be a factor (don't want to hear anything about AEP or Ouzo on this thread which will be reported as being off-topic).

PhilX

ISIL emerged after the end of the stability of Saddam's regime in Iraq. Had that invasion not taken place there would be no ISIL.
In addition, the CIA pumped lots of money into anti-Assad forces, independently and via their friends in Saudi-Arabia.
This is the moment ISIL came into being.

Basically ISIL are a mafia group driving round in shiny new pick-up trucks mounted with miniguns. Without cash they die. Snuff off the cash flow and you stop ISIL. Whilst the money stays on stream there will be no military solution in the region.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

The war in Iraq is said to be a factor (don't want to hear anything about AEP or Ouzo on this thread which will be reported as being off-topic).

PhilX

ISIL emerged after the end of the stability of Saddam's regime in Iraq. Had that invasion not taken place there would be no ISIL.
In addition, the CIA pumped lots of money into any-Assad forces, independently and via their friends in Saudi-Arabia.
This is the moment ISIL came into being.

Basically ISIL are a mafia group driving round in shiny new pick-up trucks mounted with miniguns. Without cash they die. Snuff off the cash flow and you stop ISIL. Whilst the money stays on stream there will be no military solution in the region.

Clap.

[Walker]

Any peace in the middle east has been a result of controlling the politics and bolstering leaders who are receptive to the forces that make peace possible. Without that, you have conquering tribes. The U.S. has always had a big voice, because it is powerful.

Influencing the politics in the middle east requires skill and wisdom that is quite obviously lacking in the current batch of world leaders. The balance is always precarious and shifting, and deposing the leaders of Iraq, Libya and Egypt has created chaos and tilted the balance into a power void that is being filled by “da muscle.”

Western interest in middle eastern politics has always been driven by the lust for the wealth of earth resources, rather than the charmingness of the region and its customs.

The current Orwellian foreign policy attitude of the United States is isolationism with open borders.

The question is, is the inevitable chaos and the attendent suffering calculated, or the result of stupidity and incompetence? Same effect either way, which is abnegation of the responsibility that always accompanies power.

[Hobbes' Choice]

There is no military solution to the ISIS problem, short of turning the entire Gulf into a radioactive sheet of glass.
I'd not want to live in that world.
For a 100 years (and more) western forces, mostly France and the UK, but more recently the USA have interfered in a range of different ways in the politics of the Middle East. At each and every step this has led to an increase in violence and increase in terrorism and problems at home with the lowering of freedoms, more "security", and fractured communities.

At the ideological heart of the problem is Saudi Arabia, which has been ignored.

[Obvious Leo]

The question is, is the inevitable chaos and the attendent suffering calculated, or the result of stupidity and incompetence?

When a choice is on offer between a conspiracy theory and a fuck-up then it's best to go for the fuck-up every time.

At the ideological heart of the problem is Saudi Arabia, which has been ignored.

Exactly. For decades the US was so reliant on the Saudi oil exports that it ignored the potential hazards of the ideological fundamentalism which was steadily emerging in this region. A similar thing happened in Iran and since the Arabs and the Persians have been at each other's throats for millennia it was never a smart idea to try and play both sides against the middle. The west is reaping what it has sown.

[wtf]

The 9/11 hijackers were Saudis but we invaded Iraq. Well we had to invade someone, and the Saudis sell us oil. The Saudis are our friends.

Wasn't there some flap a while back about the censorship of information about Saudi involvement in 9/11 in the official report? Yeah here it is ...

Obama under pressure to release secret pages of 9/11 report 'showing Saudi Arabia financed attacks'
A long running campaign over redacted pages of a Senate report into 9/11 which allegedly reveal Riyadh as the principle financier is gathering new momentum

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -Bush.html

As if that's ever going to appear on the MSM nightly news and propaganda show.

[Obvious Leo]

The Saudis are our friends.

The Taliban were your friends as well when they were sticking it to the Russians and thus you helped them out in a good fraternal spirit.

[Hobbes' Choice]

The Taliban (literally Students) ruled Afghanistan from around 1996. Not surprisingly only UEA, Pakistan and Saudi recognised its Emirate. Most of its followers were students in Wahabism in Saudi funded universities in Pakistan and elsewhere.
Saudi-Arabia have always been the chief movers in this extreme form of Islam and until they are shut down the troubles will not cease.

[Walker]

There is no military solution to the ISIS problem, short of turning the entire Gulf into a radioactive sheet of glass.
I'd not want to live in that world.
For a 100 years (and more) western forces, mostly France and the UK, but more recently the USA have interfered in a range of different ways in the politics of the Middle East. At each and every step this has led to an increase in violence and increase in terrorism and problems at home with the lowering of freedoms, more "security", and fractured communities.

At the ideological heart of the problem is Saudi Arabia, which has been ignored.

Hey Hobbes.

I’ve heard that living conditions for the populace were better in Iran under the Shaw, who held power due to the auspices of the United States. After the Shaw, living conditions for Iranians deteriorated because of well-deserved world sanctions led by the interests of world leaders, and those interests were an aversion to being the victims of terrorism.

But I wasn’t there, I’m not a historian, and I wasn’t always paying attention, so would you say this is accurate, and that under the past 100 years there have been good times in Iran due to US benevolence, and that the bad times of suffering in Iran have not been the result of U.S. involvement, but rather the bad times are the effects of a fundamentalist theocracy holding a strategy of terrorism as a significant component of foreign policy?

[Philosophy Explorer]

Since Saudi Arabia is mentioned, this news piece that just came out talks about the country becoming more transparent, among other things:

http://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-ar ... ty-2015-11

PhilX