Where is "here"?

So what's really going on?

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raw_thought
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by raw_thought »

Considering that the universe is billions of light years in diameter it cannot take a single life time to traverse it. It would take millions
of life times.
raw_thought
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by raw_thought »

Please explain the connection between expanding and ageing. I have noticed that in my body. :lol: But how are ageing and expanding synonymous in the context of the universe?
Obvious Leo
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by Obvious Leo »

Skip. When you pose the question "Where is here?" you pose a physical question but Galileo showed us that this is a question without a physical answer. Every physical entity in the universe is in motion and thus its location can only be specified in relation to another physical entity which is also in motion. The notion of absolute locality is simply not a physically valid construct although Hermann Minkowski managed to make it a useful mathematical fiction by using two different ontologies for time in the SR model. Erwin Schrodinger later made good use of this mathematical confection to model the subatomic world as it was understood at the time but never for a moment did he or any of the other pioneers of the quantum theory labour under any illusions that the Minkowski spacetime was a physically real representation of reality. Schrodinger did NOT believe that a cat could be dead and alive at the same time and told this story as a piss-take and a cautionary warning to others that spacetime was NOT a physical entity but merely a mathematical one.

None of the major figures in physics prior to WWII were in the least bit confused about this but the insidious doctrine of logical positivism took a strong hold after the war and spacetime gradually took on the mythical guise of being both map and territory simultaneously. This is why the various models of physics remain mutually exclusive and self-contradictory. As happens in many cloistered priesthoods the clergy have come to believe their own bullshit and instead of looking for the flaw in their a priori assumptions about the existential nature of space and time they would rather conclude that we live in a universe which makes no sense. This is why theoretical physics has failed to progress for a century.
raw_thought
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by raw_thought »

The edge of the universe is 47 billion light years away.
raw_thought
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by raw_thought »

Schrodinger's cat was a thought experiment that showed that either the Copenhagen interpretation.is true or the Evert many worlds interpretation is true.
raw_thought
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by raw_thought »

It is true that the map is not the territory. However, physicts do not confuse the two. Similarly, a map of New York is not New York. However, it resembles New York. If it did not it would be useless.
raw_thought
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by raw_thought »

Schrodinger's cat is only superficially related to spacetime. Similarly, auto mechanics is only superficially related to spacetime, because cars exist in spacetime.
Quantum mechanics has not yet been reconciled with Relativity. That remains the holy grail of physics.
Obvious Leo
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by Obvious Leo »

raw_thought wrote:Considering that the universe is billions of light years in diameter it cannot take a single life time to traverse it. It would take millions
of life times.
If SR is a model of a physically real universe then if you can get your spaceship to travel fast enough then you can traverse all of it in a single human lifetime. This is absolutely true and any physicist can confirm this to be true and your spaceship need not travel faster than the speed of light to achieve this miraculous feat. As long as your spaceship can get close enough to the speed of light then the universe will obligingly shrink down to a manageable size for you.

This is a literal and absolutely CORRECT interpretation of SR and one which no physicist will dispute so are you quite sure you wish to maintain your claim that SR is a physical model? Einstein most certainly was always very careful to distance himself from such a claim and I suggest you consider taking his lead on this matter.
raw_thought wrote:If you google it, you will get a more indepth explanation then I can give.
Carl Sagan, kaku, Greene etc used a balloon with magic marker dots on it. When they inflated the balloon of course the dots traveled away from each other.
You needn't try and teach me physics because I've studied it for forty years. I can quite certainly tell the story which you're trying to tell better than you can.
raw_thought wrote:Please explain the connection between expanding and ageing.
This is actually remarkably easy if you understand GR. Time is what clocks measure and the speed at which time passes is entirely determined by gravity. Since gravity is stronger within galaxies than it is between them then time passes more quickly between galaxies than it does within them. On the cosmological scale the observer observes this as the galaxies moving away from him, which indeed they are. However they are moving away in time and the absurd notion of an expanding space is nothing more than an observer effect. You may be surprised to know that the moon is moving away from the earth by about 4cm per year for exactly the same reason.Time passes more quickly on the moon than it does on earth but it passes more quickly in between them than it does on either body. Ergo the moon is moving away from us.

This gets rid of dark energy but it also gets rid of dark matter because we can simply accept the evidence which is plain for all to see. Depending on their mass the galaxies must inevitably fly apart until such time as they merge with other galaxies to reform into an elliptical shape. The most obvious example of a galaxy which is doing this is the one we're living in.
Obvious Leo
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by Obvious Leo »

raw_thought wrote:Schrodinger's cat was a thought experiment that showed that either the Copenhagen interpretation.is true or the Evert many worlds interpretation is true.
Bullshit. Everett's stupid many worlds nonsense did not intrude on human reason until decades later. If you wish to make the case for it go for your life but nobody in the world of physics is suggesting that the many worlds interpretation of QM is a physically real story. Is this what you're claiming?
raw_thought
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by raw_thought »

The edge of the universe is 47 billion light years away. Suppose you traveled at 186,282 mps (the speed of light) It follows that it will take 47 billion years to get there. However, your clock will be frozen (because you are going the speed of light). A clock on earth will say that it took you 47 billion years. Your clock will say that your journey was instantaneous.
You asked me to explain space expanding. I gave you the source for that information because professional physicists can explain in better. Why you felt deeply insulted confuses me.
Obvious Leo
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by Obvious Leo »

raw_thought wrote:Quantum mechanics has not yet been reconciled with Relativity.
This is completely untrue. QM is perfectly reconciled with SR because it is predicated on SR. It can NEVER be reconciled with GR because GR and SR are mutually exclusive. They simply cannot both be right.
raw_thought
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by raw_thought »

I only said that Shrodinger's cat showed that one of the two explanations must be true. True, at the time only the Copenhagen explanation was available.
Actually, Evcert's theory is now accepted as the most likely theory.
Anyway, I should wait and respond after you calm down.
The next thing will be you critizing my spelling.
raw_thought
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by raw_thought »

Obvious Leo wrote:
raw_thought wrote:Quantum mechanics has not yet been reconciled with Relativity.
This is completely untrue. QM is perfectly reconciled with SR because it is predicated on SR. It can NEVER be reconciled with GR because GR and SR are mutually exclusive. They simply cannot both be right.
I will supply links. It is amazing that you think they have been reconciled. Unfortunately, I am on a tablet. However, I will send the links tomorrow.
raw_thought
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by raw_thought »

Explain how general relativity and special relativity have not been reconciled. Its news to me and physicists.
raw_thought
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Re: Where is "here"?

Post by raw_thought »

Yes, I am saying that modern physicists say that the multiverse is a plausible representation of reality.
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