Sex is about procreation

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Blaggard
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Sex is about procreation

Post by Blaggard » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:53 pm

Well I guess some people are still living in the ice age, I disagree it is.

Make your argument sex is about procreation, in what way it only about that, and for what reason you think it is about that please digress.

Persuant to rule 429/bii this has nothing to do with anything but adult sex, please do not make it into a subject that does not take that on board.

the Hessian
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Re: Sex is about procreation

Post by the Hessian » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:01 pm

My two second bumper sticker philosophy...

If sex is about procreation, then porn stars suck (!) at their job.

morganna swish
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Re: Sex is about procreation

Post by morganna swish » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:17 pm

the Hessian wrote:My two second bumper sticker philosophy...

If sex is about procreation, then porn stars suck (!) at their job.
:lol:

Of course, the word 'sex' does not include any hidden reference to young people and their sexualtiy.
And this :P is totally meaningless, 'especially' when combined with :evil:

RickLewis
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Re: Sex is about procreation

Post by RickLewis » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:22 pm

Just as long as the porn stars in question are over the age of consent, this thread can continue.

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WanderingLands
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Re: Sex is about procreation

Post by WanderingLands » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:51 pm

Blaggard wrote:Well I guess some people are still living in the ice age, I disagree it is.

Make your argument sex is about procreation, in what way it only about that, and for what reason you think it is about that please digress.

Persuant to rule 429/bii this has nothing to do with anything but adult sex, please do not make it into a subject that does not take that on board.
Alright, here's the simple science to sex and procreation.

1) Penis penetrates vagina.
2) Sexual arousement goes on and then ejaculation happens.
3) The sperm, or the cum, that ejaculated from the penis mingles with the eggs that are in the vagina. When that happens, it usually takes a while for a woman to become pregnant and have a child.

That's the purpose of sex. You can be aroused by sexual energies, which is fine by me, but the ultimate purpose of sex is to have a continuous procreation to continue the span of the human species.

Taking "procreation" out of sex is the reason why that there is an exceeding immorality and immaturity that's being attached to sex, when sex is supposed to be more sacred and spiritual, which is propounded by the teachers of tantra, or the mystical teachings within western religion and also some pantheon religions of ancient Greece and Rome. This has caused the arrival of contraceptives, abortions, and vasectomies - all of which rooted in eugenics which is about population control (mainly of the herd that is the human masses).

That is my case.
Last edited by WanderingLands on Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wyman
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Re: Sex is about procreation

Post by Wyman » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:10 pm

Make your argument sex is about procreation
OK, I'm in the middle of a project, which means I'm in front of a computer procrastinating, so I'm game.

And blaggard, don't jump on me for my amateur knowledge of biology here, I'm just making broad, general points.

Evolution has produced in us a great pleasure that attends the sexual act. This draws us towards the sexual act so that the species will proliferate.

Being humans, we've built up a whole panoply of customs, language, symbols, ideas, meanings, you name it that surrounds that pleasure and that act.

I'm stating the obvious I think. It is not just about procreation.

The gay sexual act does not have evolutionary 'purpose' or result, but has mainly the same accoutrements, as does the activities of sterile heterosexuals, for instance. The meaning you place on the non-procreative aspects of the act is largely a function of your culture.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:33 pm

Yes, humans have "built up a whole panoply of customs, language, symbols, ideas, meanings" but none of that is necessary to sperm makin' cozy with egg.

I'm all for fuckin'...but, since I have no interest in makin' babies (raising one now and he's enough), I'm always gonna blunt my sperm (or, expect she'll blunt access to her eggs).

However: just because I like fuckin' (and look to negate the baby-making aspect) doesn't blind me to the fact that when I blunt reproduction, while doin' the reproductive dance, I'm indulging in a biological perversity...that is: biologically, I indulge in behavior that has no justification (cuz I blunted the reason for the behavior).

Again: this doesn't, to me, seem a controversial notion, just a commonsensical one.

Wyman
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Re: Sex is about procreation

Post by Wyman » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:44 pm

It's controversial because you don't tell us what - unlike non-procreative sex - does have justification and is not perverse. If you get pleasure from eating ice cream, is that perverse and without justification? It gives you pleasure without contributing necessary sustenance, while harming your health.

You also have to look long and hard for an evolutionary basis for art - is it without justification? Why is seeking pleasure perverse?

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:18 pm

"It's controversial because you don't tell us what - unlike non-procreative sex - does have justification and is not perverse."

As this thread is titled "Sex is about procreation" I was stayin' on-topic.

#

"If you get pleasure from eating ice cream, is that perverse and without justification? It gives you pleasure without contributing necessary sustenance, while harming your health."

Eatin' is necessary (you starve if you don't).

If all one has is ice cream, then subsisting on ice cream is necessary.

If you've got a whole panoply of food in front of you and you insist on ice cream only, then -- yeah -- that's *biologically perverse (I like chocolate myself).

#

"You also have to look long and hard for an evolutionary basis for art - is it without justification? Why is seeking pleasure perverse?"

From a biological stand point: art has no justification.

And: seeking pleasure for pleasure's sake 'is' perverse.

Going further: human beings (with their self-consciousness) are unnecessary.

So what?

I fuck (without making babies), I eat ice cream (when better food is available), I write novels (which do nuthin' to promote survival)...I'm a pervert (and pleased with the fact).

Human perversity (of the kind I'm talkin' about in this thread) is founded in our recursive-ness (that unnecessary 'self')...that bit of biological perversity (big, peculiarly complex, brain embedded in a particular body) allows me and you and him and her to -- some of time -- defy the biological imperative in favor of our own biologically unnecessary agendas.

Good on me and you and him and her!

I like the fact that I'm not bound -- some of the time -- by what my DNA demands.

I like that I can be biologically unprofitable.

I like 'choosing'.

Perhaps If I'd used another word (instead of perverse) my (commonsensical) notion might go over more easily, but, bein' 'perverse' I stand by the choice.









*not morally, or ethically

Blaggard
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Re: Sex is about procreation

Post by Blaggard » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:23 pm

WanderingLands wrote:
Blaggard wrote:Well I guess some people are still living in the ice age, I disagree it is.

Make your argument sex is about procreation, in what way it only about that, and for what reason you think it is about that please digress.

Persuant to rule 429/bii this has nothing to do with anything but adult sex, please do not make it into a subject that does not take that on board.
Alright, here's the simple science to sex and procreation.

1) Penis penetrates vagina.
2) Sexual arousement goes on and then ejaculation happens.
3) The sperm, or the cum, that ejaculated from the penis mingles with the eggs that are in the vagina. When that happens, it usually takes a while for a woman to become pregnant and have a child.

That's the purpose of sex. You can be aroused by sexual energies, which is fine by me, but the ultimate purpose of sex is to have a continuous procreation to continue the span of the human species.

Taking "procreation" out of sex is the reason why that there is an exceeding immorality and immaturity that's being attached to sex, when sex is supposed to be more sacred and spiritual, which is propounded by the teachers of tantra, or the mystical teachings within western religion and also some pantheon religions of ancient Greece and Rome. This has caused the arrival of contraceptives, abortions, and vasectomies - all of which rooted in eugenics which is about population control (mainly of the herd that is the human masses).

That is my case.

Since the majority of sex on Earth is now done whilst using contraception I don't see how this is the case.

There are already 7 billion people on Earth it seems a little invalid to suggest we should use sex for procreation.

Blaggard
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Re: Sex is about procreation

Post by Blaggard » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:25 pm

Wyman wrote:
Make your argument sex is about procreation
OK, I'm in the middle of a project, which means I'm in front of a computer procrastinating, so I'm game.

And blaggard, don't jump on me for my amateur knowledge of biology here, I'm just making broad, general points.

Evolution has produced in us a great pleasure that attends the sexual act. This draws us towards the sexual act so that the species will proliferate.

Being humans, we've built up a whole panoply of customs, language, symbols, ideas, meanings, you name it that surrounds that pleasure and that act.

I'm stating the obvious I think. It is not just about procreation.

The gay sexual act does not have evolutionary 'purpose' or result, but has mainly the same accoutrements, as does the activities of sterile heterosexuals, for instance. The meaning you place on the non-procreative aspects of the act is largely a function of your culture.
I've never jumped on anyone except El for being an "amateur" on biology (he knows something about the subject but clearly not enough to attack evolution and or genetic modelling), and that guy, frankly, is so hard to talk to, you have to do something, it doesn't work of course, he never answers anything, but people who ignore other inconvenient arguments, do not get the same egress I would give to others. It's all cool as far as I am concerned, as long as the discussion is open say what you like.

The gay thing is an added point. Clearly sex is about more than procreation. If the argument had been sex is mostly about procreation, as stated by the aforementioned I could see the point, although even then I wouldn't be so sure. Suffice to say I would not have had issue with that.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:34 pm

"Clearly sex is about more than procreation"

We make more of it, but what we make is unnecessary to -- again -- sperm cozying up to egg.

Again: good on us all for defying DNA!

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WanderingLands
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Re: Sex is about procreation

Post by WanderingLands » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:56 pm

Blaggard wrote:
Since the majority of sex on Earth is now done whilst using contraception I don't see how this is the case.

There are already 7 billion people on Earth it seems a little invalid to suggest we should use sex for procreation.
Overpopulation is not anything of a problem, especially since there are falling birth rates and low fertility in the Western world, and also in some Asian countries, like Japan and South Korea. There are many articles documenting this fact.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technolog ... oding.html

Excerpt:
But population decline is a very familiar concept in the rest of the developed world, where fertility has long since fallen far below the 2.1 live births per woman required to maintain population equilibrium. In Germany, the birthrate has sunk to just 1.36, worse even than its low-fertility neighbors Spain (1.48) and Italy (1.4). The way things are going, Western Europe as a whole will most likely shrink from 460 million to just 350 million by the end of the century. That’s not so bad compared with Russia and China, each of whose populations could fall by half. As you may not be surprised to learn, the Germans have coined a polysyllabic word for this quandary: Schrumpf-Gesellschaft, or “shrinking society.”

http://www.eastwestcenter.org/news-cent ... ns-in-asia

Excerpt:
Andrew Mason, senior fellow at the East-West Center (EWC) in Honolulu and a professor of economics at the University of Hawaii, points out that “Japan is now the oldest population in the world, but others are catching up.” The reasons others are snapping at Japan’s heels for the dubious title are not only improved living and health conditions but rapidly declining birth rates. Mason notes that Singapore “has reached 1.2 births per woman … (and) South Korea has the lowest fertility rate in the world – slightly less than 1.1 births per woman.” Mason adds that China may not be far behind, already boasting an anemic birth rate of 1.6, and “it will soon begin to experience rapid aging … just how rapid is unknown and will depend in part on how quickly China moves to relax the one-child policy.”
You can also see more articles here:

* https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=fa ... ates+world
* https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=fa ... +countries

Blaggard
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Re: Sex is about procreation

Post by Blaggard » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:07 pm

The population growth scaremongers are just that, I know about the idea that we wont be able to feed a burgeoning population. If China used all modern technology, it's farming output could feed the world on its own. Whilst populations have grown steadily technologies that promote better crop fecundity have grown as well, the fact that there are people starving on Earth has nothing to do with food production, although that is a bit off topic so I won't digress.

Suffice to say I agree completely that the touted scare on population growth is just that, my only point was, we are ok for enough people, we don't need to procreate to ensure the survival of the species or to create more people. I also know that westernisation with the introduction of contraception into developing countries such as Pakistan, for example, has driven population growth down to a large extent: from the average number of children being over a dozen to four in fact. So I am aware of technological developments impetus to population numbers. It's guestimated that the human population will level out at some point, somewhere in the 20 billion region. I personal, have no doubt that by then food production and perhaps the lessening of dickhead politics and unfair trade, will have ameliorated food shortages more than now, but then it always has. We are making progress, with all the pace of a glacier but progress still.

My point was only to say I deny sex is about procreation, there have been several examples where it has been pointed out, it is clearly not about population growth that was just a suggestion for the need to promote life, which clearly we don't need to do. You should probably hence, tackle those things that challenge the idea that sex is about procreation, because the population growth thing is not relevant.
Last edited by Blaggard on Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wyman
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Re: Sex is about procreation

Post by Wyman » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:07 pm

I fuck (without making babies), I eat ice cream (when better food is available), I write novels (which do nuthin' to promote survival)...I'm a pervert (and pleased with the fact).

Human perversity (of the kind I'm talkin' about in this thread) is founded in our recursive-ness (that unnecessary 'self')...that bit of biological perversity (big, peculiarly complex, brain embedded in a particular body) allows me and you and him and her to -- some of time -- defy the biological imperative in favor of our own biologically unnecessary agendas.
OK, so when you say these things are unjustified, you mean biologically unjustified. I pretty much agree. I thought you were arguing against doing these things because they are unjustified. However, I see the distinction between justified and unjustified (biologically) as blurry and without much meaning except to biologists -i.e. it's not a distinction that would inform anyone's life decisions, except perhaps a desire to rebel against biological laws (your 'I'm a pervert and pleased with the fact') because there's not much else to rebel against these days.

I wonder where the human urge (very powerful in some) to rebel stands in the biological analysis?

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