What art can be made in a world such as this.

[Pluto]

There exists both extreme beauty and horror. The monstrosity of the world. Sublime wonder of creation. What artwork can do justice to the world in its totality. Damien Hirst's '1000 Years'.

Why portray hope in an artwork.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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[Pluto]

you horrendous crackerjack

[The Voice of Time]

you horrendous crackerjack

Don't get him excited. I don't want him to post a video here of him jerking off telling us it's not pornography ^^

[Bill Wiltrack]

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[Pluto]

As a thought experiment, to put myself in a place. I accept certain so called conspiracy theories. So, relevant to the present scene, starting with 9/11 then the suicide of Dr David Kelly, then the Madrid bombings and then the London 7/7 bombings. I think of these events as being orchestrated by parties within, or on behalf of those in power. Not carried out by those groups named by power but by power itself. Global Warming, as a political construction to confuse and control. The present scene makes more sense when one considers these possibilities. At least to me. I see history and that it is filled with examples of power carrying out such atrocities, such endeavours in the battle for control. So it is nothing new.

My thought is that with this understanding what should a painting look like. If ethical, it would sooner or later have to address these problems. But how, what should an artwork depict if it is to be ethical, take a moral stand. Painting flowers seems ridiculous now, or maybe not, it would depend on how they were painted.

Because of the uncertainty and confusion of the present I have started to paint pictures of mist, fog, clouds, etc. This can be simply expressed in a picture whose contours, outlines are faint. The image is not clear. Ambiguous. To mirror the present as a first stage strategy. To align.

Any thoughts?

[Bernard]

It's like asking what we should eat and drink in our times. The variation is relatively slight from the past as aesthetics are built in according to the type of organism we are.

[Pluto]

It's like asking what we should eat and drink in our times. The variation is relatively slight from the past as aesthetics are built in according to the type of organism we are.

Not sure I get what you're saying. What we eat and drink in our times is the same as what we paint in our times? And could you say a bit more about the meaning of your second sentence?

[Bernard]

I mean that our aesthetics needs have changed as little as our dietary needs.

[Pluto]

I mean that our aesthetics needs have changed as little as our dietary needs.

Okay. What do you think are our aesthetic needs?

[Bernard]

If you can suffer me continuing the nutrition analogy: the first need, love, is like what air means to us. It is often taken for granted but it is the most necessary aesthetic need, and without it we would be dead in minutes. The second is a close relative to love and often fills it, as the sky is filled with cloud or mist: beauty, which I liken here to water, because without it too we would soon perish.The third aesthetic is earth, which can be broken down into many forms. It is like the solids we consume that are of many characteristics and nutritive qualities. Earth is such a broad arena of events for us that we need go no further in identifying a fourth aesthetic need, though I would for arguments sake add the abstract as the fourth need, but the less discussed or suggested about its nature the better. So there you have it. A bit too simple maybe?

[Pluto]

If you can suffer me continuing the nutrition analogy: the first need, love, is like what air means to us. It is often taken for granted but it is the most necessary aesthetic need, and without it we would be dead in minutes. The second is a close relative to love and often fills it, as the sky is filled with cloud or mist: beauty, which I liken here to water, because without it too we would soon perish.The third aesthetic is earth, which can be broken down into many forms. It is like the solids we consume that are of many characteristics and nutritive qualities. Earth is such a broad arena of events for us that we need go no further in identifying a fourth aesthetic need, though I would for arguments sake add the abstract as the fourth need, but the less discussed or suggested about its nature the better. So there you have it. A bit too simple maybe?

Well, no, not too simple. I see what you're saying. Those things you mention are important. But I thought you meant 'aesthetics' as described in a dictionary:

aes·thet·ics
1.A set of principles concerned with the nature and appreciation of beauty, esp. in art.
2.The branch of philosophy that deals with the principles of beauty and artistic taste.

But I can see that the needs you are talking about are fundamental to life. I think what I'm saying is how to understand and navigate the present through artworks. To say, okay this has happened, so I must make a right (or whatever). To make pictures as points on a map. The map would be a model of the present. So it's important to think hard about what a picture of the present is going to look like. Not to reflect the doom as this is pointless, and not to paint escapist pictures, but something that houses the present and its opposite simultaneously, if you will.

[Bernard]

When I create I aim at very simple goals. To achieve real beauty in a work of art demands keeping an eye on the big picture. Details of the issues of times we live in will be somewhat evident but not important or directly dealt with. What is called contemporary art nowadays was commercial art in my day. You studied it to go into advertising, cartooning, design. It was not regarded as art proper, though there were occasional works that were real art... Very occasional. Then came Andy Warhol and co and these commercial/social statements became real art all of a sudden. I don't go for it meself.

It's not a question like "What sort of tattoo should I get?" No. It's laying bare what is within you in that very moment. The contents reveal themselves as you progress.

Our times are not really of any more importance, interest or relevance than any other time, so why agonise over them? The highest aesthetics are the most arcane and close to the bone. What fills your day to day experiences? Particular people, dreams, activities, thougts and places. These are what you are most versed and knowledgable in and therefore are the things you will be most competent in representing via a creative work. These are the things that you will discover most of what is to be got by you in terms of love, beauty and earth.

[Pluto]

My day to day experiences are nothing much to behold, the usual, going to work, studying, reading. What about you?

[Bernard]

But these are the best things! Our generation hasn't seen the savagery that war, pestilence and famine can incur overnight upon a people. We have it incredibly good mostly.

Yeh, I work on a coffee farm managing the milling operation and we'll soon be starting roasting, so I'm gearing up for that. Its quite complex to roast coffee well. My wife just threw my sons sword at the TV and its stuffed so I'm looking forward to getting the novel I ordered last week in the mail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO9hF_aNelw