Philosophy Now Forum

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:58 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:55 am I don't know what the fuck any of that means.

It means:

1. Shutting up about it == NOT politicising it
2. NOT shutting up about it == politicising it

Nope. Still nothing...

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:01 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:58 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:55 am I don't know what the fuck any of that means.

It means:

1. Shutting up about it == NOT politicising it
2. NOT shutting up about it == politicising it

Nope. Still nothing...

I only know how to explain it to you. I don't know how to understand it for you.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:02 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:01 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:58 am
It means:

1. Shutting up about it == NOT politicising it
2. NOT shutting up about it == politicising it

Nope. Still nothing...

I only know how to explain it to you. I don't know how to understand it for you.

Zilch

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:54 am Speaking of...

dressup.jpg

Spot on!!

This Be Spot On!!

- “Mommies, why are you taking me to see the sex clowns who wear bright colors, clown makeup, and giant wigs?”

- “Why dear, we’re taking you to see the sex clowns because there have been instances where priests have sexually abused children. Do you see the logic?

- “No mommy.”

- “Well dear child, there have many more instances where government school teachers have sexually abused children, and probably still are. Many more instances, according to the Department of Education, which has not stopped the abuse. Numbers as high as 1 in 10 children, which is millions of instances. Do you see the logic of us taking you to the sex clowns now?”

- “No mommy.”

- “Well my little innocent one, through sexually suggestive entertainment that teaches you about mixing adult sexuality with children, we just want you to know that we, your mommies, approve of grooming you into this culture of adult/child sex.”




That's the name of that tune.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:04 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:56 pm

Justice is the ultimate aim of any government.

No.

You have rule by the one, rule by the few and rule my the many.

Take your pick.

Yes. But how do you sort out which version of rule is the better one? If there were such a thing as a demonstrably benevolent autocrat among a crowd of unjust people. Which would be better, autocracy led by the benevolent autocrat or Democracy run by an unjust majority? Democracy is a means to an end, not an end in itself. For governance, Justice is the ultimate end. Of course, that opens up a whole new set of questions and debate concerning what is "justice".

All versions can be good or bad.

Philosophers love to talk about the enlightened despot.

That's great as long as it lasts.

But what happens when things go bad? The enlightened despot becomes the evil despot. One party rule becomes oppression. There is tyranny of the masses.

Your chances of getting out of the mess are better with a democracy. There are more sane people around with some influence. There is no one leader or one party which has a stranglehold on the society.

(But this is all off topic.)

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:04 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:08 pm

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:04 pm

Undoubtedly you feel the way you feel. So what? Many feelings are largely if not wholly void of reason.

By all means make a well-reasoned case as to why men - is it also always "bad" for women? - cross dressing is "bad" under all circumstances.

I gave a reason. It's a bad example for children.

Actually you were asked to make a well-reasoned case as to why men cross dressing is 'bad' under all circumstances.

Let's say someone made the following claim:

Wearing red clothing is bad. What's the reason? Wearing red clothing sets a bad example for children. That's the reason

Do you believe that a well-reasoned case had been made?

Do you still believe that you made a well-reasoned case?

I never said that "men cross dressing is "bad" under all circumstances".

Jack Lemmon, Tony Curtis, 'Some Like It Hot'. Funny stuff.

You want to cross dress in your bedroom, then go ahead.

You want to cross dress, put on a show and have adults pay to see it. Okay.

You want to cross dress and read stories in a school or library. Not appropriate.

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:58 pm I never said that "men cross dressing is "bad" under all circumstances".

Jack Lemmon, Tony Curtis, 'Some Like It Hot'. Funny stuff.

You want to cross dress in your bedroom, then go ahead.

You want to cross dress, put on a show and have adults pay to see it. Okay.

You want to cross dress and read stories in a school or library. Not appropriate.

What about just *be* in public? Do you think it should be illegal for a man to just walk around in drag in public places?

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:33 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:58 pm I never said that "men cross dressing is "bad" under all circumstances".

Jack Lemmon, Tony Curtis, 'Some Like It Hot'. Funny stuff.

You want to cross dress in your bedroom, then go ahead.

You want to cross dress, put on a show and have adults pay to see it. Okay.

You want to cross dress and read stories in a school or library. Not appropriate.

What about just *be* in public? Do you think it should be illegal for a man to just walk around in drag in public places?

Illegal, no. But there is such a thing as bad taste. And if you encourage bad taste then something else just becomes bad taste that maybe wasn't before. These days it's becoming bad taste either to favor certain things over others or else it's becoming bad taste to express good taste. But the one thing bad taste can't be is that which was considered bad taste before.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:49 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:33 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:58 pm I never said that "men cross dressing is "bad" under all circumstances".

Jack Lemmon, Tony Curtis, 'Some Like It Hot'. Funny stuff.

You want to cross dress in your bedroom, then go ahead.

You want to cross dress, put on a show and have adults pay to see it. Okay.

You want to cross dress and read stories in a school or library. Not appropriate.

What about just *be* in public? Do you think it should be illegal for a man to just walk around in drag in public places?

Illegal, no. But there is such a thing as bad taste. And if you encourage bad taste then something else just becomes bad taste that maybe wasn't before. These days it's becoming bad taste either to favor certain things over others or else it's becoming bad taste to express good taste. But the one thing bad taste can't be is that which was considered bad taste before.

I don't have any issue with anybody not liking drag. I wouldn't personally like to see any of those people in person who have had their photos posted in this thread The gap between not liking something and making it illegal is huge. Most things I don't like should be legal.

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:58 pm You want to cross dress and read stories in a school or library. Not appropriate.

It'll be fine once everyone gets used to the idea.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:33 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:58 pm I never said that "men cross dressing is "bad" under all circumstances".

Jack Lemmon, Tony Curtis, 'Some Like It Hot'. Funny stuff.

You want to cross dress in your bedroom, then go ahead.

You want to cross dress, put on a show and have adults pay to see it. Okay.

You want to cross dress and read stories in a school or library. Not appropriate.

What about just *be* in public? Do you think it should be illegal for a man to just walk around in drag in public places?

These...



...are public places.

Would it matter which door he walked through?
_______

The question isn't really relevant. Men in drag are men and identify as men. Men in drag do not want to be considered women, and are not asking for entry into women's bathrooms.

Perhaps you're confusing drag with trans. The bathroom question is not relevant here.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:33 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:58 pm I never said that "men cross dressing is "bad" under all circumstances".

Jack Lemmon, Tony Curtis, 'Some Like It Hot'. Funny stuff.

You want to cross dress in your bedroom, then go ahead.

You want to cross dress, put on a show and have adults pay to see it. Okay.

You want to cross dress and read stories in a school or library. Not appropriate.

What about just *be* in public? Do you think it should be illegal for a man to just walk around in drag in public places?

I don't have a problem with that.

Of course, if you're walking with a child, you might have to explain it to him/her.

But that's also the case when you come across a person sleeping on the street, or drunk, or pushing a shopping cart full of their valuables, or making questionable statements, ...

We live(d) in meaningful times, eh mon ami? I remember not feeling uncomfortable sittin' next to a drag king. Allah rahim/El rachum. I can only hear "who wants beer?" It's amazin', this world is.