uwot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:02 pm
ken wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:28 pmThis may be a ridiculous clarifying question but what do you mean by "At the speed of light, there can be no photon exchange?"
It's yer basic Pythagoras. Imagine the two atoms moving parallel to each other. Suppose they are 3mm apart. Now imagine they have moved 4mm, so that where they were, and where they are now, define the corners of a rectangle which is 3mm by 4mm. In order to pass from one atom to the other, a photon has to take a diagonal path the cuts the rectangle into two right angled triangles. From Pythagoras, we know that the length of that diagonal path is 5mm. If the atoms are travelling at the same speed as the photons (which as davidm points out; they can't, but never mind), then the two atoms and the photon, will all travel 4mm. In other words, the photon cannot reach the target atom.
Yes I know all this, but why is there an assumption that ALL photons ALL travel in the exact same one direction?
ALL photons travel at the speed of light and they still exchange.
uwot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:02 pmken wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:28 pmDo you think photons only travel one way in the whole entire Universe?
I may be crazy. But not that crazy.
So, you agree that there is photon exchange even though photons travel at the speed of light?
uwot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:02 pmken wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:28 pmTo Me, it would not matter if at rest or travelling at the speed of light or any thing in between, photons are travelling in all directions. So, it would not matter at all if travelling at the speed of light there will obviously be light coming from the opposite and from all other directions also, at the speed of light too. There will be photon exchange no matter what because light photons travel in ALL directions. This is because there is a light source in ALL directions in the Universe. Therefore , there will be a metabolic event that happens always that will cause the ageing process, no matter if traveling at the speed of light or at rest, or anywhere in between.
Yeah. Somewhere up-thread, I said something about collisions; so yes, things travelling at the speed of light will hit other stuff. But the normal interactions that occur between the atoms that make up, for instance, a human body, will not happen.
Why not?
What are "normal" interactions? Are they the ones human beings experience and therefore they are only what human beings are used to?
uwot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:02 pmken wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:28 pm
uwot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:47 am
Fair enough. The atoms get from one place to another, but the types of interactions, the exchange of photons, for example, that take place between atoms at sub-light speed, simply cannot happen; if light speed really is the limit.
I do not know what you are trying to get at here?
More or less what I said above.
What do you mean by, "The atoms get from one place to another, but the types of interactions, the exchange of photons, for example, that take place between atoms at sub-light speed,
simply cannot happen"?
uwot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:02 pmken wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:28 pm
What actual evidence is there for this? The supposed evidence I have seen does not add up.
Well, there's Hafele-Keating et al, and muon decay, as per the link provided. If you can show why it doesn't add up, the Nobel Prize is in the post.
What is it with human beings and prizes, especially some prize labeled "nobel"?
Human beings really have misplaced their want of recognition, for being recognized for who they truly are, with being just recognized for some useless thing and for some thing that has been absolutely wrongly been given importance.
I have previously said here the last thing I want is some sort of prize.
I would much prefer to be heard and listened to, and then recognized and accepted for who I truly am. But anyway each to their own.
Why it does not add up is because if it takes a certain amount of time for a human being to travel some where, then that does NOT mean that that human being comes back, to where they left from, younger than the human beings of the same age, just because that human being traveled at a certain speed.
If a human body takes 10.01 years to travel a distance of 10 light years, then how much has that human body aged?
If people agree that it takes a photon 10 years to travel a distance of 10 light years, then why do the same people insist on things like it would take the human being "next to no time" and/or "the human body would age next to nothing" if a human being did the same distance in 10.01 years?
If a human being traveled from earth at 99.99% of the speed of light in a straight line and turned around and come back to earth, for four years, then how much has that human being aged and how much has the human beings on earth aged?
When people look at this from the perspective from being on earth only do they give the same answer as the people who look at this from the perspective from being on earth AND from the perspective of being the traveler also?
uwot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:02 pmken wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:28 pmTo Me, photon exchange still happens and according to you photon exchange is the basis for all chemical reactions.
The key word is exchange. You are quite right that the universe is awash with photons, and that atoms will collide with them, but those sort of collisions are not the same as the interactions that make a collection of atoms a coherent entity, such as a human body; much less a living, or thinking one.
What do you mean, "but those sort of collisions are not the same as the interactions that make a collection of atoms a coherent entity, such as a human body; much less a living, or thinking one"?
THOSE SORTS OF COLLISIONS are the EXACT SAME INTERACTIONS that have and continue to make ALL bodies, including those ones that are able to think.
uwot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:02 pmken wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:28 pmAre you capable of imagining IF a human being with a functioning brain was traveling at the speed of light and looking at them self in mirror?
Yup, before I've even brushed my teeth.
ken wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:28 pmIF you are capable of that, then what would be happening? Would that human body continue to age, or would it just stop ageing but continue to live, or would it just stop ageing and also stop breathing and stop pumping blood?
It would be a collection of atoms, all travelling in the same direction. The only interactions that could occur, would be with the atoms behind. All 'normal' processes would cease. I also happen to think that consciousness would, at least, be suspended and probably terminated, because, I suspect, consciousness is a pattern of brain states, and the chance of the same brain state re-establishing itself once it had been so catastrophically interrupted are about the same as dropping a skip load of cards from a mountain top, and dealing everyone on the planet a Royal Flush. (This is a completely made up statistic, and I will happily defer to anyone who can be arsed to do the sums.)
I asked you, "Are capable of imagining IF ...". You answered, "Yep, before I've even brushed my teeth." YET when you went to answer the question about what would happen you instantly went from imagining, what I asked you if you could, to only looking from what information is already stored within the brain within that head. You might have been capable of imagining what I asked you if you could, but you do not seem capable of remaining in that open perspective of imagination and wonderment.
You appear to really not be able to do much more than to look from, and only see from, that brain's perspective only. But do not worry to much about it, as I am pretty sure you will not anyway, but you are not alone in this regard.
Looks like I will have to put the question in a way that that brain can understand fully. A human being and a clock are traveling at close to the speed of light, if you think or believe that the ageing process of that human being and the ticking of that clock will slow down, then how do you propose the slowing process actually happens, and, what is that actually process that supposedly slows down a human made clock and the human body?