Re: IS and OUGHT
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:54 pm
Of course not. I think a small charge would be appropriate.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:54 pm
I assume you're not advocating, "Free killing for all," are you?
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IS and OUGHT
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Re: IS and OUGHT
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:00 pm
Re: IS and OUGHT
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:10 pm
Ah, well...that changes things.Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:00 pmOf course not. I think a small charge would be appropriate.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:54 pm
I assume you're not advocating, "Free killing for all," are you?
Re: IS and OUGHT
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:34 pm
Democratic legislation for all its shortcomings is the only safeguard against tyranny.
Re: IS and OUGHT
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:38 pm
The Hard Right:Examples:Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:20 pmIt can be. Although, today, I see absolutely no threat of it coming from the one side.Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:56 amIt's the authoritarian bit that's tyrannical regardless of Left or Right.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:11 am
That's a perfect description of Social Justice.
It comes along, and says,
"There's a new sin: it's called "systemic racism." It's everywhere and nowhere, and you're all guilty by birth and skin, even if you grovel in the dust. But you can be an ally, and have the pleasure of licking my boots for me, and then maybe I won't call you "racist" all the time, for no reason."
Yep, you've pegged that. It's the whole strategy of the authoritarian Left today.
There is no "Hard Right" worth speaking of, at least in Western democracies. That also seems to be a complete fiction of the Left, born out of their desperate need for an alleged "adversary" to make them relevant, because the Left is so horribly bad at proposing anything positive. Their entire agenda seems to be "overthrow the status quo," but they never have any clear program of what to do if they ever managed to do it.
Iran. Modern Russia. Afghanistan. Saudi Arabia. The reactivation of Nazism in Europe and America. Trumpism.
Re: IS and OUGHT
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:48 pm
Re: IS and OUGHT
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:16 pm
Hilarious. You think Putin's a "Nazi"?Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:38 pmThe Hard Right:Examples:Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:20 pmIt can be. Although, today, I see absolutely no threat of it coming from the one side.
There is no "Hard Right" worth speaking of, at least in Western democracies. That also seems to be a complete fiction of the Left, born out of their desperate need for an alleged "adversary" to make them relevant, because the Left is so horribly bad at proposing anything positive. Their entire agenda seems to be "overthrow the status quo," but they never have any clear program of what to do if they ever managed to do it.
Iran. Modern Russia.
Really? They're not Islamists...just Nazis, you say?Afghanistan.
Oh my. Same.Saudi Arabia.
Nope...no bluffs. No fakies. Where. Show them to me.The reactivation of Nazism in Europe and America.
Trumpism.
I knew that was coming! Yes, yes...the rogue Democrat millionaire is a secret Nazi? Lovely. I was thinking you might trot out Ben Shapiro, as well...it would make as much sense as the others you've suggested.
Re: IS and OUGHT
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:42 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:16 pmHilarious. You think Putin's a "Nazi"?Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:38 pmThe Hard Right:Examples:Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:20 pm
It can be. Although, today, I see absolutely no threat of it coming from the one side.
There is no "Hard Right" worth speaking of, at least in Western democracies. That also seems to be a complete fiction of the Left, born out of their desperate need for an alleged "adversary" to make them relevant, because the Left is so horribly bad at proposing anything positive. Their entire agenda seems to be "overthrow the status quo," but they never have any clear program of what to do if they ever managed to do it.
Iran. Modern Russia.Really? They're not Islamists...just Nazis, you say?Afghanistan.Oh my. Same.Saudi Arabia.Nope...no bluffs. No fakies. Where. Show them to me.The reactivation of Nazism in Europe and America.Trumpism.
I was thinking you might trot out Ben Shapiro, as well...it would make as much sense as the others you've suggested.
Immanuel, a Nazi is one sort of right wing extremist. Putin is not a Nazi however he is a right wing tyrant of the old school. Theocrats are right wing by definition.
It may be easier for you if you think of the tyranny spectrum as not a line but a circle where the extremists blend into each other at the furthest point from the moderates.
Re: IS and OUGHT
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:53 pm
Yes: a historically anachronistic one, one that has no relevance today, at all.
You don't know what "right wing" and "left wing" mean, if you think that. And you're now calling Putin a "theocrat"?Theocrats are right wing by definition.
You're making it up. You haven't got any real "right wing" threats to democracy, and the Left has no vision or strategy for a better future; so you have to invent them to justify the aggitation of the Left, because without an "enemy" the Left is stupified.
That's a transparent ruse.
Re: IS and OUGHT
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:21 pm
At some point I want to get back to why we ought to care what God values, and I feel like there was then a second debate after that (I'll have to go find it).
Re: IS and OUGHT
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:45 pm
Please forgive Henry, Harbal, Immanuel and Belinda's behavior, AC. I can't take them anywhere and I find myself often having to apologize on their behalf.
Meanwhile...
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:49 pm
...in the irony void between Mr Can's ears:
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:53 pmYou don't know what "right wing" and "left wing" mean...
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:24 pmNow, concerning National Socialism, it is Leftist. It's "Socialism." It's not "right wing" at all.
Re: IS and OUGHT
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:19 am
If you wanna, then do. Threads meander, topics shift. If you wanna get back to why we ought to care what God values, make it happen. Don't wait around for it.
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pro, the day I have to rely on you for diddly is the day I'll eat fast-movin' shot from my own gun.I can't take them anywhere...
Re: IS and OUGHT
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:46 am
No problem. Can we focus that?
On the surface, the question answers itself: "Because God is God." But I suppose there will be more to the question, so I won't say that.
I suspect it still involves the mistake of thinking there are things or actions that can be rightly assigned an objective "value" without reference to the character and wishes of God, or that the act of valuing can confer some objective value of that sort...but I'll wait and see.
Re: IS and OUGHT
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:59 am
"Because God is God."
that's not an answer or an argument haus. it's like a statement of a tautology that explains nothing. It's something trump, a t-shirt or a trump t-shirt would say: it is what it is.
that's not an answer or an argument haus. it's like a statement of a tautology that explains nothing. It's something trump, a t-shirt or a trump t-shirt would say: it is what it is.