Aesthetics/Feelings/Judgments

[bus2bondi]

hi M:), thank you for your replies, i'm going to try and reply tonight because i'm not able to right now. i think tonight it will be possible:) thanks

[bus2bondi]

hi M, i apologize for not getting back to you but just haven't been able to. thank you again for your patience.

as for the song i posted, i apologize but i'm not able to get into all the takes that i had on it because there are too many (and avoiding the meltdown point ), but a few examples of how i found the song to be a slippery slope relating to aesthetics, feelings, and judgments are that the song may seem to some, what word should i use, 'earthy' 'downhome' 'simplistic' 'warm' 'refreshing' and depending upon the person that may or may not be a good thing.

i found the lyrics 'don't need to be no strong hand, don't need to be no rich hand' interesting because in my life i have needed and appreciated the help of others who happen to be stronger or richer, however he seems to be saying something else.. but by the end of the song, to me it started to become ambiguous as to whether or not he was making just one statement..

a rich person certainly might find the lyrics offensive, but might enjoy other aspects of it. and again, towards the end of the song, i was not so sure he was necessarily insulting the rich, etc... it started to become ambiguous and seemed to me that he might of been saying, 'hey nomatter who you are'..

i have a side of me that likes the 'earthy 'downhome' 'refreshing' side of life alot, i prefer to wear jeans and am not very 'fancy'. however, i don't mind if others are 'fancy' or are deeply into fashion. that is very meaningful to them.

Didn't know that about the word 'rad' ? was it more of an American expression ? I wondered because my first 'feeling' was that 'cool' is easier to slip off the tongue, and is perhaps similar in many languages, haven't
worked that one out yet...

i think the word rad originated in America, and i'm not quite sure, but i think it originated from skateboard culture. it may have been a break off from the word radical where a skater might of been using it to describe a radical jump. i'm not sure. but then it spread out into other spheres and became a descriptive word used to describe something that someone might like or agree with.. such as 'rad hair man' or 'rad shirt'.

i'm not sure what or where cool originated from or why it has lasted, but it may have been like you said, 'easier to slip off the tongue' or a variety of things. i almost felt as though i almost reached it's essense, core or dynamism(?) the other night when i was thinking about it. but not quite.

when i was thinking about this a long time ago, i ran into some information somewhere that said it originated in Europe. i'm not sure about that either tho. i've noticed there are many feelings, judgments, and uses for this word however.

for example one of it's uses seems to be as a value judgment and when used in this way, seems to effect or try to effect certain phenomena.

for example, philosophy and language is interesting to me, whereas for others it might not be. that is fine with me and there is no value judgment there.

however, when someone says that one of the two is cooler than the other or uncool, then it seems to bring a certain negativity(?), (i'm looking for the right word, but can't find the word that is used to describe the concept i'm thinking of and trying to reach) into the... again, i'm looking for the right word to fill this concept.. into the moment. that will have to do for now. but doesn't seem to be quite it.

on the other hand, its also used in another way as a more casual word and i say it frequently. for example, if someone says 'i had a great day yesterday', i might say 'cool':) in that sense it seems to be a slight value judgment, but not used in the way mentioned above...

i'm going to post this and add more shortly:)

thanks

[bus2bondi]

hi again M:), leaving cool behind, i remember that the other night i wrote

bahhh that buggered me well good goddammit!

i struggled and struggled whether or not i should write that or not. maybe there are alot of feelings and judgments related to the aesthetics of those words. i thought it may seem insulting in many ways to europeans, or whoever.. but not all. to some it may seem as some ability, that through 'all of this in our great confusing world, conundrum, and lives' to laugh at ourselves, every now and then, to a certain extent, is fine. however i also thought it might be offensive to some.

when i've questioned this before, i thought to myself, wait a minute, why do most americans (myself included) seem to be pretty much the only ones that make a mockery of other languages, etc., and unknowingly find laughter and joy in it.

i've asked this question, however, i've asked it knowing all the while, i've failed, and still fail, and i'm a hypocrite.

[bus2bondi]

I have to rush out now, b2b - but will respond later. It would be great to talk about 'feelings' related to alcoholism - and how words and music might help...; also about 'judgments'...

Later...

hello M, judgments reminded me of the other day when i was at court. i was in anxiety attack. it's how some feel when they are forced in speech class to give a speech. it was internally horrendous. i kept trying to find a way to approach this situation, 'i can't do it', 'i can't do it', 'i can't do it', 'got to do it.' 'got to do it.' 'got to.' 'goddammit, do it.' 'got to.' internally crumbling at the thought of it, stumbled along and kept trying to find how to make it through, and how to make 'face'. i kept telling myself many things, be 'this and that', just don't faint, and i have no idea what perception the judge may have found from this.

[marjoramblues]

hi again M:), leaving cool behind, i remember that the other night i wrote

bahhh that buggered me well good goddammit!

i struggled and struggled whether or not i should write that or not. maybe there are alot of feelings and judgments related to the aesthetics of those words. i thought it may seem insulting in many ways to europeans, or whoever.. but not all. to some it may seem as some ability, that through 'all of this in our great confusing world, conundrum, and lives' to laugh at ourselves, every now and then, to a certain extent, is fine. however i also thought it might be offensive to some.

when i've questioned this before, i thought to myself, wait a minute, why do most americans (myself included) seem to be pretty much the only ones that make a mockery of other languages, etc., and unknowingly find laughter and joy in it.

i've asked this question, however, i've asked it knowing all the while, i've failed, and still fail, and i'm a hypocrite.

I think you think too much.
Give yourself a break...
Take a walk on the bright side
Leave this joint
Whatever...

[marjoramblues]

I have to rush out now, b2b - but will respond later. It would be great to talk about 'feelings' related to alcoholism - and how words and music might help...; also about 'judgments'...

Later...

hello M, judgments reminded me of the other day when i was at court. i was in anxiety attack. it's how some feel when they are forced in speech class to give a speech. it was internally horrendous. i kept trying to find a way to approach this situation, 'i can't do it', 'i can't do it', 'i can't do it', 'got to do it.' 'got to do it.' 'got to.' 'goddammit, do it.' 'got to.' internally crumbling at the thought of it, stumbled along and kept trying to find how to make it through, and how to make 'face'. i kept telling myself many things, be 'this and that', just don't faint, and i have no idea what perception the judge may have found from this.

b2b - how great is that, that you managed to talk your self through it

[marjoramblues]

hi M, i apologize for not getting back to you but just haven't been able to. thank you again for your patience.

as for the song i posted, i apologize but i'm not able to get into all the takes that i had on it because there are too many (and avoiding the meltdown point ), but a few examples of how i found the song to be a slippery slope relating to aesthetics, feelings, and judgments are that the song may seem to some, what word should i use, 'earthy' 'downhome' 'simplistic' 'warm' 'refreshing' and depending upon the person that may or may not be a good thing.

i found the lyrics 'don't need to be no strong hand, don't need to be no rich hand' interesting because in my life i have needed and appreciated the help of others who happen to be stronger or richer, however he seems to be saying something else.. but by the end of the song, to me it started to become ambiguous as to whether or not he was making just one statement..

a rich person certainly might find the lyrics offensive, but might enjoy other aspects of it. and again, towards the end of the song, i was not so sure he was necessarily insulting the rich, etc... it started to become ambiguous and seemed to me that he might of been saying, 'hey nomatter who you are'..

i have a side of me that likes the 'earthy 'downhome' 'refreshing' side of life alot, i prefer to wear jeans and am not very 'fancy'. however, i don't mind if others are 'fancy' or are deeply into fashion. that is very meaningful to them.

Didn't know that about the word 'rad' ? was it more of an American expression ? I wondered because my first 'feeling' was that 'cool' is easier to slip off the tongue, and is perhaps similar in many languages, haven't
worked that one out yet...

i think the word rad originated in America, and i'm not quite sure, but i think it originated from skateboard culture. it may have been a break off from the word radical where a skater might of been using it to describe a radical jump. i'm not sure. but then it spread out into other spheres and became a descriptive word used to describe something that someone might like or agree with.. such as 'rad hair man' or 'rad shirt'.

i'm not sure what or where cool originated from or why it has lasted, but it may have been like you said, 'easier to slip off the tongue' or a variety of things. i almost felt as though i almost reached it's essense, core or dynamism(?) the other night when i was thinking about it. but not quite.

when i was thinking about this a long time ago, i ran into some information somewhere that said it originated in Europe. i'm not sure about that either tho. i've noticed there are many feelings, judgments, and uses for this word however.

for example one of it's uses seems to be as a value judgment and when used in this way, seems to effect or try to effect certain phenomena.

for example, philosophy and language is interesting to me, whereas for others it might not be. that is fine with me and there is no value judgment there.

however, when someone says that one of the two is cooler than the other or uncool, then it seems to bring a certain negativity(?), (i'm looking for the right word, but can't find the word that is used to describe the concept i'm thinking of and trying to reach) into the... again, i'm looking for the right word to fill this concept.. into the moment. that will have to do for now. but doesn't seem to be quite it.

on the other hand, its also used in another way as a more casual word and i say it frequently. for example, if someone says 'i had a great day yesterday', i might say 'cool':) in that sense it seems to be a slight value judgment, but not used in the way mentioned above...

i'm going to post this and add more shortly:)

thanks

Thanks for this, b2b - I too am fascinated by words - their meaning, manipulation and interpretation. Kinda wish I'd studied English or linguistics.
However, I do wonder if at times if it might be best to listen to music without lyrics. So as to relax; relax and let the mind go.

Anyway, totally off-track now -

I wish you all the best b2b. Right now, the sun doth shine - I'm so outta here

Bye.

[artisticsolution]

Hi Bondi and M,

Thank you for keeping the thread alive. Bondi, I think you are on of the most honest people I have ever met. I wonder to myself how many people make similar judgments...have similar feelings and aesthetics as you describe...only they don't wear it on their sleeve?

A friend of mine once confessed to me that she had what she called "the imposter syndrome" She felt, because of her position and background in education she was expected to behave a certain way in public or she would lose respect from her peers.

Another friend of mine, admitted to making a business call once and then having to give her phone number to a client and completely forgetting it! She just made up a number in her head and used that one...hung up...looked up her phone number and called back her client and said something like "just to make sure we connect I want to leave you with a second number...this is my personal line and it will be easier to reach me here."

I just wonder how many of us have this type of "imposter syndrome" going on. I myself try to make it seem like I am busier than I am when booking murals...unless of course I am actually busy...lol. If I am not busy I will say something like..."I am currently working on a mural but things are going well and I may be done early...if you'd like it might be possible to fit you in next week...would you like me to give you a call if I can?" Okay...so I'm a big fat liar...lol...but this fucking pretense of "having prestige or a promise of someday being a famous artist in demand and the art they purchased from me being worth more as an investment" is bloody hard work!

There are some days where the words "I can't do it" overwhelm me too. Then I think...screw it....I will lie to myself and say " I can do it!" That's when I get frustrated and start lying to everyone else...all the while thinking...son of a bitches made me do it..." That's the woman in me coming out....because I am Cinderella dammit....I could never be bad....

[bus2bondi]

b2b - how great is that, that you managed to talk your self through it

i guess so, i wouldn't say it was great but managed anyhow. i was wondering whether or not i would look nonchalent, or too angry, or whatever inbetween. i tried to consider what 'personality' (?) i should find to make it through... i told myself get angry if you have to, but then you'll look angry and dangerous, even if your not, i told myself nonchalent, but then you'll seem nonchalent as if you don't care...

i don't have this problem in everyday life, but i know there are those that do. for me it's pretty much in those 'blip' situations such as speech class, and court may be similar.

i've never had a problem for example in a crowd of thousands of people in a concert.. but i know there are those that do.

[bus2bondi]

Thanks for this, b2b - I too am fascinated by words - their meaning, manipulation and interpretation. Kinda wish I'd studied English or linguistics.
However, I do wonder if at times if it might be best to listen to music without lyrics. So as to relax; relax and let the mind go.

Anyway, totally off-track now -

I wish you all the best b2b. Right now, the sun doth shine - I'm so outta here

Bye.

i never thought you weren't, so that's great. i've never wished i've studied english or linguistics, and perhaps you are totally off track or perhaps right on, or perhaps both, i wish you all the best too, glad the sun shines for you, hope you had a nice time.

[bus2bondi]

hi As, after i read your post i had a few different replies, one was, that 'it's been said that there is no such thing as wisdom' but you prove that wrong. i am not able to respond further right now, but would like to add more when possible.

thanks

[marjoramblues]

A quick response:

Interested to hear about views on what constitutes 'honesty' and 'wisdom' in writing, especially related to philosophy.

Also, how can such things be truly measured by 'feelings' - being swayed by the 'likeness' of the other and how agreeable they are to you and others.

For example, once someone has intentionally or unintentionally plagiarised someone else's writing ( or taken credit for someone else's work), then how far can their writings/postings be trusted. There is a current case in point in the 'Rimbeaud' thread - where a 'summary' has been given of a Germaine Greer text; the source of which is not given and which is then 'quoted' in further posts as being 'reasonvemotion writes'.

This is not the first instance - and my highlighting of it might be a result of my feeling ill-will to the poster who I might perceive as being dishonest. However, another 'belief' might be that this doesn't really matter in the long run, as long as the message gets across. Ignore and carry on...but isn't this being dishonest about what matters to you...

I am having this difficulty with Grayling's Good Book - I can understand the ? aesthetic reasons behind the lack of references and an index, but if I wanted to quote something from the book, what then ? It is 'made' by Grayling, so does he then get the credit for 1000's of years of collective wisdom ?

And finally - about some terminology. 'Slippery slope', 'imposter syndrome', 'equivocation' - see wiki for further explanations.

This may come over as being blunt - but hey, it's an exploration. I love the way some posters seem to think they can get away with 'bad' behaviour by ending up with 'Hey, it was all a test, an experiment!'
Is this being 'honest' or 'dishonest' ?

Honestly, philo will be the death o' me

[Lynn]

A quick response:

Interested to hear about views on what constitutes 'honesty' and 'wisdom' in writing, especially related to philosophy.

Also, how can such things be truly measured by 'feelings' - being swayed by the 'likeness' of the other and how agreeable they are to you and others.

For example, once someone has intentionally or unintentionally plagiarised someone else's writing ( or taken credit for someone else's work), then how far can their writings/postings be trusted. There is a current case in point in the 'Rimbeaud' thread - where a 'summary' has been given of a Germaine Greer text; the source of which is not given and which is then 'quoted' in further posts as being 'reasonvemotion writes'.

This is not the first instance - and my highlighting of it might be a result of my feeling ill-will to the poster who I might perceive as being dishonest. However, another 'belief' might be that this doesn't really matter in the long run, as long as the message gets across. Ignore and carry on...but isn't this being dishonest about what matters to you...

The current case in point, the 'Rimbeaud' thread, can be found here viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9489 .