Can you prove solipsism true?

[Age]

http://bc.upjp2.edu.pl/Content/5621/35_ ... odnym3.pdf

I was wondering if this is the case after looking at the paper above. It seems to just say that if someone is a solipsist then you can’t argue them out of it because their view is consistent and not illogical but I’m not entirely sure. I think that later on he does prove it true and that’s what bugs me.

Everywhere I have asked I get the same answer that it’s impossible because you can’t get outside your perception of the world so you’re unable to confirm it right or wrong. But I’m wondering if there is some secret reasoning that someone could do.

I would rather it be truly impossible so I can leave it behind because it’s had a massively negative impact on my life and relationships with others.

If it's any consolation, you could also be a hologram, a brain-in-a-vat, a computer program, you could always be dreaming, could always be hallucinating, you could always be deceived by God/the Devil/an evil demon. You could even be just a figment of DAM's imagination. Maybe you wre born 2 seconds ago with implanted memories. Impossible to prove or disprove anything with absolute certainty.

Maybe, BUT maybe NOT.

Just as easily AND simply it is POSSIBLE to prove or disprove ANY 'thing', and/or ALL 'things', WITH 'absolute certainty'.

Which, by the way, IT IS.

[Darkneos]

Forgot to add, don’t bother with dontaskme. They don’t want a discussion they just want you to blindly accept what they say as fact. They got blown out in the last thread I was in by me and some other person.

[Darkneos]

http://bc.upjp2.edu.pl/Content/5621/35_ ... odnym3.pdf

I was wondering if this is the case after looking at the paper above. It seems to just say that if someone is a solipsist then you can’t argue them out of it because their view is consistent and not illogical but I’m not entirely sure. I think that later on he does prove it true and that’s what bugs me.

Everywhere I have asked I get the same answer that it’s impossible because you can’t get outside your perception of the world so you’re unable to confirm it right or wrong. But I’m wondering if there is some secret reasoning that someone could do.

I would rather it be truly impossible so I can leave it behind because it’s had a massively negative impact on my life and relationships with others.

If it's any consolation, you could also be a hologram, a brain-in-a-vat, a computer program, you could always be dreaming, could always be hallucinating, you could always be deceived by God/the Devil/an evil demon. You could even be just a figment of DAM's imagination. Maybe you wre born 2 seconds ago with implanted memories. Impossible to prove or disprove anything with absolute certainty.

Maybe, BUT maybe NOT.

Just as easily AND simply it is POSSIBLE to prove or disprove ANY 'thing', and/or ALL 'things', WITH 'absolute certainty'.

Which, by the way, IT IS.

It’s not, that’s probably one of the few truths in philosophy. Nothing can be proven or disproven with absolute certainty.

Also how hard is it to write clearly?

[Age]

All of the above applies - the "so what?" is the usual nihilistic attack against any and all arguments.

Which was my point about philosophical disagreement being predominantly about conflict of values, not conflcit of facts.

Even if there is a difference between X and Y. Even if that difference is beneficial to somebody, somewhere. So what?

Said differently: I see your point, but why are you making it?

I don’t see it as nihilism. “So what” is a valid criticism about the supposed consequences of a position.

Appealing to the consequences of a position is vanilla moral consequentialism. To which a nihilist simply responds with "So what?"

In the debates I have seen over stuff like pornography or homosexuality the conservative side usually labels it as degenerate or against nature (or some other appeal to emotion), to which the natural criticism is “so what”? Why is that bad? What’s wrong with it? And the usual response is some form of “it just is”, nothing about harm or negatives, “it just is”. So by asking it you’re sort of forcing them to justify their position to you which can reveal some telling information about it. In that case it would be a conflict of facts and values, except in this cases it’s the facts about the supposed harm.

Everything that is just is. Asserting that something is "harmful" is a value judgment. Subject to a nihilistic "So what?"

Moralist: Hitler harmed 6 million jews. It was effectively genocide.
Nihilist: So what?

A beneficial difference is part of that “so what”. It’s showing a beneficial impact. But to something like arguing the fundamental nature of reality is peanut butter I would say “so what” because how does that impact anything else?

Science and medicine cures many diseases, prolongs and improves the quuality of human life.

Nihilist: So what?

WHY do you PRESUME what A human being, which you have LABELLED here, would SAY such a thing?

As for the point, I feel like I was going somewhere with it but I think I lost the thread

The point is that philosophy is pointless.

ONCE AGAIN, this is just YOUR VIEW, ALONE here "skepdick". Which, by the way, IS Truly POINTLESS.

So, WHY do you spend SO MUCH time just TELLING "others" your OWN personal, and POINTLESS, view of 'things'?

In a battle of value-systems the person who has nothing to lose (the nihilist) is at an advantage.

If ANY one 'tries to' 'battle' their OWN personal 'value-system' AGAINST "another", then they HAVE, in a sense, become CONFUSED, and LOST, in Life, ANYWAY.

[Age]

Do any actual Solipsists really believe it?

If they're actual solipsists.
And some psychopaths and narcissists act like it's the case.

Sounds more like a mental illness. If they really believed it, that is.

Really BELIEVING (in) ANY 'thing', besides ONE 'thing', REALLY IS a 'mental illness'.

[Age]

Sounds more like a mental illness. If they really believed it, that is.

I think so, something like a mental mess. And probably cut off from other people. I don't think you just read some philosophy or think your way to this position and the suffer it. I would think you'd have to be mainly alone or not close to people. I suppose someone might enjoy it.

For someone to take comfort from the idea that everyone else is just a figment of their imagination says more about them, i think, than the nature of reality.

Is there or was there EVER A human being who REALLY thought/thinks or BELIEVED/BELIEVES that "everyone else" is just a figment of their imagination?

[Darkneos]

If they're actual solipsists.
And some psychopaths and narcissists act like it's the case.

Sounds more like a mental illness. If they really believed it, that is.

Really BELIEVING (in) ANY 'thing', besides ONE 'thing', REALLY IS a 'mental illness'.

It’s not.

[Age]

Forgot to add, don’t bother with dontaskme. They don’t want a discussion they just want you to blindly accept what they say as fact. They got blown out in the last thread I was in by me and some other person.

Actually what "dontaskme" is so desperately 'trying to' argue and fight for, ultimately, is absolutely irrefutably True. "dontaskme", however, just REFUSES to even just consider changing the words they USE and LOOKING AT 'things' a bit differently, which if they DID, would, eventually, PROVE 'its' CLAIM here IRREFUTABLY True.

[Age]

If it's any consolation, you could also be a hologram, a brain-in-a-vat, a computer program, you could always be dreaming, could always be hallucinating, you could always be deceived by God/the Devil/an evil demon. You could even be just a figment of DAM's imagination. Maybe you wre born 2 seconds ago with implanted memories. Impossible to prove or disprove anything with absolute certainty.

Maybe, BUT maybe NOT.

Just as easily AND simply it is POSSIBLE to prove or disprove ANY 'thing', and/or ALL 'things', WITH 'absolute certainty'.

Which, by the way, IT IS.

It’s not, that’s probably one of the few truths in philosophy. Nothing can be proven or disproven with absolute certainty.

Are you here suggesting that you KNOW, FOREVER MORE, that there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that ANY 'thing' would EVER be ABLE TO uncover NOR work out ABSOLUTELY ANY way that ANY 'thing' could be proven or disproved with 'absolute certainty'?

Also how hard is it to write clearly?

What are you IMPLYING here?

AND,

What is NOT CLEAR in what I WRITE here?

[Age]

Sounds more like a mental illness. If they really believed it, that is.

Really BELIEVING (in) ANY 'thing', besides ONE 'thing', REALLY IS a 'mental illness'.

It’s not.

Name just one 'thing' you BELIEVE (in), and we can have a look at 'it', and then I will SHOW how doing so IS a 'mental illness'.

Now, if you do NOT do 'this', then what ACTUAL PROOF do you have that BELIEVING (in) ANY 'thing', besides the ONE 'thing', REALLY IS NOT a 'mental illness'?

[Darkneos]

Forgot to add, don’t bother with dontaskme. They don’t want a discussion they just want you to blindly accept what they say as fact. They got blown out in the last thread I was in by me and some other person.

Actually what "dontaskme" is so desperately 'trying to' argue and fight for, ultimately, is absolutely irrefutably True. "dontaskme", however, just REFUSES to even just consider changing the words they USE and LOOKING AT 'things' a bit differently, which if they DID, would, eventually, PROVE 'its' CLAIM here IRREFUTABLY True.

It’s actually not true and was already refuted by me and someone else.

And no nothing can be proven to absolute certainty because you could always be missing some part of the picture that you aren’t aware of. So no matter what you do it’s always just going to be a best guess, or to some degree a belief.

As for belief, well I believe other people exist, have minds, etc and aren’t P zombies. Even you believe in stuff to though you likely won’t admit it.

It’s like you have a few good points in your noise but the rest is just demonstrably untrue.

[Age]

Forgot to add, don’t bother with dontaskme. They don’t want a discussion they just want you to blindly accept what they say as fact. They got blown out in the last thread I was in by me and some other person.

Actually what "dontaskme" is so desperately 'trying to' argue and fight for, ultimately, is absolutely irrefutably True. "dontaskme", however, just REFUSES to even just consider changing the words they USE and LOOKING AT 'things' a bit differently, which if they DID, would, eventually, PROVE 'its' CLAIM here IRREFUTABLY True.

It’s actually not true and was already refuted by me and someone else.

A GREAT DEAL of what "dontaskme" SAYS and CLAIMS can be, and has been, ALREADY REFUTED. BUT the ULTIMATE and FINAL 'message/thing' that "dontaskme" wants to, eventually, REVEAL is IRREFUTABLY True.

Also, what do you think or BELIEVE that the 'it' word REFERS TO, EXACTLY, anyway?

And no nothing can be proven to absolute certainty

If 'this' IS TRUE, then what 'this' ULTIMATELY MEANS that even 'this' can NOT be proven to 'absolute certainty', which therefore MEANS that 'this' could just be False, Wrong, AND Incorrect itself. Or, do you NOT AGREE WITH this?

because you could always be missing some part of the picture that you aren’t aware of.

OF COURSE, and just like you could be MISSING A PART that, ACTUALLY, 'things' may well be ABLE TO be PROVED, WITH 'absolute certainty' ONE DAY.

Or, do you STILL WANT TO BELIEVE that 'this' could NEVER EVER become a PART OF 'the picture'?

So no matter what you do it’s always just going to be a best guess, or to some degree a belief.

Here we have ANOTHER one who is 'trying to' CLAIM that 'the truth' can NEVER be KNOWN.

WHY were SO MANY OF 'them' NOT YET ABLE TO SEE that they ARE CLAIMING that 'truth' can NEVER BE KNOWN, as though 'this' IS AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH OF ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY?

The VERY REASON WHY, by the way, IS VERY OBVIOUS. AGAIN, BELIEFS, and the BELIEF-system, play a HUGE PART here.

As for belief, well I believe other people exist, have minds, etc and aren’t P zombies.

GREAT. Here we have ANOTHER example of one BELIEVING some 'thing' to be ABSOLUTELY TRUE, BEFORE it has GAINED ACTUAL PROOF FOR, and WHERE the 'mental illness' comes INTO PLAY here is in WHY BELIEVE some 'thing' to be, which, ultimately, may well NOT even be remotely true, let alone ACTUALLY True?

WITH the Right ANSWER, comes WITH 'IT' a MUCH BETTER UNDERSTANDING of 'mental issues and illnesses'.

Even you believe in stuff to though you likely won’t admit it.

I am REALLY getting VERY SICK and TIRED with these human beings who BELIEVE that BELIEFS ARE NECESSARY, and that absolutely EVERY one HAS TO BELIEVE 'things', otherwise they could NOT even exist.

you have just made a HUGE CLAIM, that is; I BELIEVE IN STUFF. So now, SAY what 'it' IS, which I SUPPOSEDLY and ALLEGEDLY, BELIEVE IN, EXACTLY?

THEN PROVE that I BELIEVE IN 'it'.

It’s like you have a few good points in your noise but the rest is just demonstrably untrue.

LOL IF there ARE 'things' I SAY, which ARE, SUPPOSEDLY, 'demonstrably untrue', then DEMONSTRATE HOW and WHY 'they' ARE so-called 'untrue'.

If you do NOT, then you ARE DOING and REVEALING some of the VERY POINTS, which I have been POINTING OUT and REVEALING here.

ALSO, and LOL, I ALWAYS find it Truly HILARIOUS how the 'good points' are ALWAYS the ones in AGREEMENT, and the 'noise' or 'demonstrably untrue' is ALWAYS what one DISAGREES with.

[Darkneos]

A GREAT DEAL of what "dontaskme" SAYS and CLAIMS can be, and has been, ALREADY REFUTED. BUT the ULTIMATE and FINAL 'message/thing' that "dontaskme" wants to, eventually, REVEAL is IRREFUTABLY True.

Also, what do you think or BELIEVE that the 'it' word REFERS TO, EXACTLY, anyway?

Unless you're gonna say what I call bullshit.

If 'this' IS TRUE, then what 'this' ULTIMATELY MEANS that even 'this' can NOT be proven to 'absolute certainty', which therefore MEANS that 'this' could just be False, Wrong, AND Incorrect itself. Or, do you NOT AGREE WITH this?

Nope. And yes I am familiar with the word game of "even this can't be proven absolutely certain". But that doesn't change what it has to say. You could say it's the one certainty in a paradoxical way.

If 'this' IS TRUE, then what 'this' ULTIMATELY MEANS that even 'this' can NOT be proven to 'absolute certainty', which therefore MEANS that 'this' could just be False, Wrong, AND Incorrect itself. Or, do you NOT AGREE WITH this?

And? Are you saying the only argument you have is that my position isn't certain? If that's true you might as well quit now. Because then there isn't any point to argumentation or philosophy.

OF COURSE, and just like you could be MISSING A PART that, ACTUALLY, 'things' may well be ABLE TO be PROVED, WITH 'absolute certainty' ONE DAY.

Or, do you STILL WANT TO BELIEVE that 'this' could NEVER EVER become a PART OF 'the picture'?

The word MAY is doing a lot of heavy lifting, to which someone can say "you don't know what you don't know", tautological I know but it's true. No matter what you do unless you are truly omniscient then certainty is just a dream.

Here we have ANOTHER one who is 'trying to' CLAIM that 'the truth' can NEVER be KNOWN.

WHY were SO MANY OF 'them' NOT YET ABLE TO SEE that they ARE CLAIMING that 'truth' can NEVER BE KNOWN, as though 'this' IS AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH OF ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY?

The VERY REASON WHY, by the way, IS VERY OBVIOUS. AGAIN, BELIEFS, and the BELIEF-system, play a HUGE PART here.

Asked and answered.

GREAT. Here we have ANOTHER example of one BELIEVING some 'thing' to be ABSOLUTELY TRUE, BEFORE it has GAINED ACTUAL PROOF FOR, and WHERE the 'mental illness' comes INTO PLAY here is in WHY BELIEVE some 'thing' to be, which, ultimately, may well NOT even be remotely true, let alone ACTUALLY True?

WITH the Right ANSWER, comes WITH 'IT' a MUCH BETTER UNDERSTANDING of 'mental issues and illnesses'.

Don't put words in my mouth, no one said absolutely true and proof only exists in mathematics. We have evidence and that's about as good as you're gonna get. I also HIGHLY doubt you fully grasp mental illness or issues. I studied this for your information and the reality is that mental illness has had a pretty iffy history as to what it's called. It can change depending on the culture, even over time. Homosexuality used to be a mental illness and now it isn't to give an example.

I strongly think we aren't having a conversation and you're just unhinged here.

I am REALLY getting VERY SICK and TIRED with these human beings who BELIEVE that BELIEFS ARE NECESSARY, and that absolutely EVERY one HAS TO BELIEVE 'things', otherwise they could NOT even exist.

you have just made a HUGE CLAIM, that is; I BELIEVE IN STUFF. So now, SAY what 'it' IS, which I SUPPOSEDLY and ALLEGEDLY, BELIEVE IN, EXACTLY?

THEN PROVE that I BELIEVE IN 'it'.

Again with "prove", you sound almost terrified of uncertainty or not having all the answers. I can't definitively prove it, nothing can be definitively proven, but I can very reasonably make a few claims. You believe there is some person typing this out and not a robot, you believe I exist and have a mind, etc and am typing this out (if not this is going to be a super awkward conversation).

LOL IF there ARE 'things' I SAY, which ARE, SUPPOSEDLY, 'demonstrably untrue', then DEMONSTRATE HOW and WHY 'they' ARE so-called 'untrue'.

If you do NOT, then you ARE DOING and REVEALING some of the VERY POINTS, which I have been POINTING OUT and REVEALING here.

ALSO, and LOL, I ALWAYS find it Truly HILARIOUS how the 'good points' are ALWAYS the ones in AGREEMENT, and the 'noise' or 'demonstrably untrue' is ALWAYS what one DISAGREES with.

If I didn't already think you were unhinged before now this more or less confirms it for me. You haven't revealed any points, you just have the one "if nothing is certain then how can you say I'm wrong" or something to that end. To which I say, that isn't much of a point since we can use that to deny everything because it's not perfect. See where that would get us. You just have a bunch of assertions with no logic (like a few people I know on here). There isn't an arguments, it's just screaming into the void.

If anything I have a sneaking suspicion that you're a sock puppet account for dontaskme or vice versa, though it's just a hunch. But the style is the same though you're more unhinged though that's likely to try and convince folks you're different people.

Finally, and a minor nitpick, but this random all caps isn't doing anything besides making folks doubt your sanity.

[Age]

A GREAT DEAL of what "dontaskme" SAYS and CLAIMS can be, and has been, ALREADY REFUTED. BUT the ULTIMATE and FINAL 'message/thing' that "dontaskme" wants to, eventually, REVEAL is IRREFUTABLY True.

Also, what do you think or BELIEVE that the 'it' word REFERS TO, EXACTLY, anyway?

Unless you're gonna say what I call bullshit.

I note that you did NOT say what the 'it' word refers to, exactly, which you CLAIM you REFUTED.

But the ULTIMATE 'thing' talks about, and which can be PROVED True is Oneness.

If 'this' IS TRUE, then what 'this' ULTIMATELY MEANS that even 'this' can NOT be proven to 'absolute certainty', which therefore MEANS that 'this' could just be False, Wrong, AND Incorrect itself. Or, do you NOT AGREE WITH this?

Nope.

LOL So, to you, NOTHING is 'absolutely certain', BUT you are 'absolutely certain' that what you SAY and CLAIM IS TRUE.

And yes I am familiar with the word game of "even this can't be proven absolutely certain". But that doesn't change what it has to say. You could say it's the one certainty in a paradoxical way.

LOL and there IT IS.

What I have been ACCUSING these people of doing ALL ALONG. That is; CLAIMING that 'things' can NEVER be proven to be true, or that there is NO truth, BUT what they SAY and BELIEVE is true IS, somehow magically, absolutely true, absolutely certain to be true, or IS the TRUTH.

If 'this' IS TRUE, then what 'this' ULTIMATELY MEANS that even 'this' can NOT be proven to 'absolute certainty', which therefore MEANS that 'this' could just be False, Wrong, AND Incorrect itself. Or, do you NOT AGREE WITH this?

And? Are you saying the only argument you have is that my position isn't certain?

NO, NOT AT ALL.

I am just POINTING OUT the HYPOCRISY and CONTRADICTION IN the CLAIM you are making here.

If that's true you might as well quit now. Because then there isn't any point to argumentation or philosophy.

It IS and NEVER WAS true, so the rest is moot.

OF COURSE, and just like you could be MISSING A PART that, ACTUALLY, 'things' may well be ABLE TO be PROVED, WITH 'absolute certainty' ONE DAY.

Or, do you STILL WANT TO BELIEVE that 'this' could NEVER EVER become a PART OF 'the picture'?

The word MAY is doing a lot of heavy lifting,

OF COURSE. It is IN the words we USE, WHERE Truth LAYS, or DOES NOT.

to which someone can say "you don't know what you don't know",

Absolutely ANY one could say absolutely ANY 'thing'. BUT, if they can back up and support what they SAY and CLAIM with ACTUAL PROOF, then that is ANOTHER 'thing'.

tautological I know but it's true. No matter what you do unless you are truly omniscient then certainty is just a dream.

See, I ALREADY KNOW HOW to OBTAIN 'certainty'. So, 'certainty' and 'absolute certainty' here IS POSSIBLE.

But, OF COURSE, if you BELIEVE otherwise, then 'it' could NEVER BE, correct?

Here we have ANOTHER one who is 'trying to' CLAIM that 'the truth' can NEVER be KNOWN.

WHY were SO MANY OF 'them' NOT YET ABLE TO SEE that they ARE CLAIMING that 'truth' can NEVER BE KNOWN, as though 'this' IS AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH OF ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY?

The VERY REASON WHY, by the way, IS VERY OBVIOUS. AGAIN, BELIEFS, and the BELIEF-system, play a HUGE PART here.

Asked and answered.

GREAT. Here we have ANOTHER example of one BELIEVING some 'thing' to be ABSOLUTELY TRUE, BEFORE it has GAINED ACTUAL PROOF FOR, and WHERE the 'mental illness' comes INTO PLAY here is in WHY BELIEVE some 'thing' to be, which, ultimately, may well NOT even be remotely true, let alone ACTUALLY True?

WITH the Right ANSWER, comes WITH 'IT' a MUCH BETTER UNDERSTANDING of 'mental issues and illnesses'.

Don't put words in my mouth, no one said absolutely true and proof only exists in mathematics.

Talk ABOUT 'putting words in "another's" mouth'.

We have evidence and that's about as good as you're gonna get.

But I do NOT rely on just 'evidence'. I rely ON and USE ACTUAL 'proof', INSTEAD.

I also HIGHLY doubt you fully grasp mental illness or issues.

Okay.

I studied this for your information and the reality is that mental illness has had a pretty iffy history as to what it's called. It can change depending on the culture, even over time. Homosexuality used to be a mental illness and now it isn't to give an example.

I strongly think we aren't having a conversation and you're just unhinged here.

Okay. Is this BECAUSE you ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE WITH some of my CLAIMS here?

I am REALLY getting VERY SICK and TIRED with these human beings who BELIEVE that BELIEFS ARE NECESSARY, and that absolutely EVERY one HAS TO BELIEVE 'things', otherwise they could NOT even exist.

you have just made a HUGE CLAIM, that is; I BELIEVE IN STUFF. So now, SAY what 'it' IS, which I SUPPOSEDLY and ALLEGEDLY, BELIEVE IN, EXACTLY?

THEN PROVE that I BELIEVE IN 'it'.

Again with "prove", you sound almost terrified of uncertainty or not having all the answers.

Well you can ASSUME absolutely ANY 'thing' you like, ABOUT 'me', and JUMP TO as MANY CONCLUSIONS as you like, ABOUT 'me', but just doing so does NOT make ANY of 'them' right, NOR true.

I can't definitively prove it, nothing can be definitively proven, but I can very reasonably make a few claims. You believe there is some person typing this out and not a robot, you believe I exist and have a mind, etc and am typing this out (if not this is going to be a super awkward conversation).

'you' could NOT be MORE NOR FURTHER Wrong, even if you wanted to be or tried to be.

AND, what you are 'now' ASSUMING is ALSO just as Wrong.

LOL IF there ARE 'things' I SAY, which ARE, SUPPOSEDLY, 'demonstrably untrue', then DEMONSTRATE HOW and WHY 'they' ARE so-called 'untrue'.

If you do NOT, then you ARE DOING and REVEALING some of the VERY POINTS, which I have been POINTING OUT and REVEALING here.

ALSO, and LOL, I ALWAYS find it Truly HILARIOUS how the 'good points' are ALWAYS the ones in AGREEMENT, and the 'noise' or 'demonstrably untrue' is ALWAYS what one DISAGREES with.

If I didn't already think you were unhinged before now this more or less confirms it for me.

OKAY, GREAT.

You haven't revealed any points,

So, as soon as I call you out to DEMONSTRATE what you CLAIM is 'demonstrably true', INSTEAD of just DOING 'this' you CLAIM I have NOT revealed ANY points.

Also, and by the way, your ASSUMPTIONS are LEADING you VERY FAR ASTRAY here.

you just have the one "if nothing is certain then how can you say I'm wrong" or something to that end.

'This' is SO NOT what I have been SAYING AT ALL.

To which I say, that isn't much of a point since we can use that to deny everything because it's not perfect. See where that would get us. You just have a bunch of assertions with no logic (like a few people I know on here). There isn't an arguments, it's just screaming into the void.

BUT NOTHING what you are ASSUMING here I have said, I have ACTUALLY NOT said AT ALL.

If anything I have a sneaking suspicion that you're a sock puppet account for dontaskme or vice versa, though it's just a hunch. But the style is the same though you're more unhinged though that's likely to try and convince folks you're different people.

This was a VERY QUICK TURNAROUND on YOUR part here.

Finally, and a minor nitpick, but this random all caps isn't doing anything besides making folks doubt your sanity.

OKAY.

By the way what was the reason for NOT quoting 'me' this time with my 'name'?

[Darkneos]

A lot of what you just said is meaningless noise so I'm gonna pick out the ACTUAL points here:

I note that you did NOT say what the 'it' word refers to, exactly, which you CLAIM you REFUTED.

But the ULTIMATE 'thing' talks about, and which can be PROVED True is Oneness.

Oneness of? Also I have a suspicion of what that oneness means and I'm pretty sure you don't get it. From what I was told oneness isn't "one", "dual", or "Both" or "neither" but rather a subtle truth. It doesn't literally mean oneness, though Buddhism was always a bit tricky like that.

But no, you can't prove oneness true. All you're doing is just asserting it so.

Absolutely ANY one could say absolutely ANY 'thing'. BUT, if they can back up and support what they SAY and CLAIM with ACTUAL PROOF, then that is ANOTHER 'thing'.

I told you proof is for mathematics, in real life we have evidence. Using evidence we make a best guess about what is going on and sometimes it goes well and sometimes no, it's a never ending process of refinement. You and him say the "I" is an illusion but Buddhism doesn't say this, not truly. When asked if there was a self the Buddha was silent because it didn't matter for enlightenment. Though what they mean by illusion is a permanent and unchanging self, like a soul (which was in contrast to Hinduism which says the opposite).

See, I ALREADY KNOW HOW to OBTAIN 'certainty'. So, 'certainty' and 'absolute certainty' here IS POSSIBLE.

But, OF COURSE, if you BELIEVE otherwise, then 'it' could NEVER BE, correct?

No you don't, you just believe yourself certain and that's the most dangerous form of belief.

But I do NOT rely on just 'evidence'. I rely ON and USE ACTUAL 'proof', INSTEAD.

Asked and answered.

Honestly this is just noise. Yelling that folks just don't get "The truth", and yet you have no actual arguments for it. Like...using words like proof, ultimate, know, and certain. Honestly this just sounds like fear, fear of not knowing, not being certain, demanding proof as though it's some solid sort of support for yourself.

Like...I just feel bad for you, because it's almost like some pathological need to have THE ANSWER, when really no one truly has it. Science doesn't claim to, it just does it's best with what it has so far. And to be frank, that's a way better track record than any other system out there. It's not perfect or complete, but it doesn't need to be, it's good enough. For the questions it can't answer, like ethics, well that's what philosophy is for.

Honestly though, I came to this forum to discuss philosophy and instead I get nutbars who think repeating the same thing over and over makes it true. You might want to check a spirituality forum, not a philosophy one.