Yes, whatever the scientific theory, i.e. evolution in this case is to be defaulted as top-down inferred from observations.owl of Minerva wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:18 am Evolution is top-down not bottom up. Before evolution took place on earth it occurred in space. Earth had to win its place in the galaxy along with the other planets, subject to the resonance between Jupiter and Saturn. Evolution of forms on earth is the evolution of forms propelled by physical forces. Consciousness did not evolve from physical forces, it was top down before it emerged from physical forces, emerging as vitality in plants; sensation in animals; intelligence in man.
If it was not there from the beginning in what manner was it created by physical forces, are there any theories or definitions of how that occurred?
The point is as a scientific theory is it at best a "polished conjecture" thus it will not conclude anything that is final nor absolutely absolute.
As such, science with best theories we have at present will never answer 'how where is consciousness from physical forces'. This is a moot question for science.
Why any one would want to pursue this 'impossible' question is due to psychology driven by an existential crisis as I had wrote elsewhere.
Whatever the 'first' cause, it can be acceptable as long as it is inferred from an empirical base, but it should never be taken as absolutely real and final.The origin of life is not known; there are numerous theories regarding first cause. To say that life emerged from something is not ridiculous. The theories range from electric spark; deep sea vents; from space, or Oparin-Haldane theory of inorganic molecules. Take your pick.
E.g. the BB is accepted as an original cause of the universe from a reductive approach of an empirical expanding universe. But no scientists will accept the BB as final and many will not even reduce to a certain beginning with a 'Bang'.
Yes events not time is primary. However events denote humans are part of that event. There is no escape from the human factor.Past-present-future are linear and features of time. What is metaphysical, beyond time does not enter temporal time except as expression. I have also read Carlo Rovelli’s book; events not time is primary. Motion, time, space, and the atom order the events of linear time in the macro world.
You cannot sum it absolutely.To want to know if there is a final cause, what it may be, has been relevant to philosophy and science. There was a beginning, there is a middle, so what is the end and to what purpose; although science does not concern itself with purpose, just how the cosmos may end.
To sum up everything came from something. Otherwise it is something from nothing which defies logic. From beyond space, from space, from any of the above-named theories which are just a few of many. If it emerged from the inorganic it is truly miraculous. It emerged from something prior that existed, otherwise it emerged from non-existence. The former is logical, the latter is not.
What is logic that is defied other than logic is ultimately a human construct.
That you are stuck with the expectations of 'logic' is a psychological issue.
Logic [traditional] is a necessity in certain aspects of life but not every level of life. What is relevant for Newtonian, Einsteinian is not valid at the Quantum levels, but they are useful for their respective levels.
Thus one need to be able to suspend the expectations of logic at the higher levels of life and not be a slave to logic [traditional or otherwise].
