God and COVID-19

[Gary Childress]

After reading about some of the horror stories going on in New York and other places in the world from COVID-19 right now--people drowning in their own blood-filled lungs, medical personnel getting sick while trying to help others--it really makes me wonder what kind of "god" presides over such horror? Is there really a God at all? And if there were, would it not be a God of evil? I was once an atheist because I thought the world was too messed up to be run by a God. Later I was willing to switch to agnosticism because I thought maybe the world is not such an evil place after all. But now I see so much suffering and horror that It really makes me want to go back to being an atheist or else it makes me think God must be evil. I can't believe in a God who allows so much suffering.

What is God?
If he is the creator then he created the virus.
If he is omniscient then he knows all the effects and suffering the virus causes.
If he is omnipotent then he has the power to stop the virus and the suffering.
What else is God?

If he were a human being, I'd say he was also pathological with a severe mood disorder.

[Gary Childress]

What is it you think God should have done instead?

Not created any viruses to begin with or else not given them the capacity to cause that kind of misery.

Alright. So your suggestion is that God should not have created any viruses. Let's roll with that.

Just viruses? Or would a good God prevent bacteria, hurricanes, cancer...you know, other types of bad things as well.

In other words, would you be content to say to God, "Oh Lord, I thank Thee that in thy mercy, though Thou didst create hurricanes, cancer and bacteria, Thou did not, at the very least, create any awful things called 'viruses'."

Or would you expect more, of a genuinely good God?

Sure, why not? Let's get rid of all the maladies so that we can all live good lives.

[Immanuel Can]

Sure, why not? Let's get rid of all the maladies so that we can all live good lives.

Okay. But what about the evils in men? Say, child exploitation, sex trafficking, slavery, rape, war, ethnic cleansing...

Could God be good, and prevent viruses and hurricanes and such, but allow the evil that men do to go on? Or would a genuinely good God have to deal with those as well?

[Gary Childress]

Sure, why not? Let's get rid of all the maladies so that we can all live good lives.

Okay. But what about the evils in men? Say, child exploitation, sex trafficking, slavery, rape, war, ethnic cleansing...

Could God be good, and prevent viruses and hurricanes and such, but allow the evil that men do to go on? Or would a genuinely good God have to deal with those as well?

God could give some people less active sex drives. God could make slavery unprofitable. God could make it so that there was no such thing as nuclear weapons. God could make some people less hateful. I assume there are lots of possibilities open to a god.

[Immanuel Can]

Sure, why not? Let's get rid of all the maladies so that we can all live good lives.

Okay. But what about the evils in men? Say, child exploitation, sex trafficking, slavery, rape, war, ethnic cleansing...

Could God be good, and prevent viruses and hurricanes and such, but allow the evil that men do to go on? Or would a genuinely good God have to deal with those as well?

God could give some people less active sex drives. God could make slavery unprofitable. God could make it so that there was no such thing as nuclear weapons. God could make some people less hateful. I assume there are lots of possibilities open to a god.

I'm assuming that, too.

But I see a bit of a hold back here...would a good God stop people from misbehaving sexually, or from wanting to? Would it be okay for people to really want to enslave others, but not be able to do it merely because of profit margins? Would a good God allow good inventiveness, but intervene to prevent bad inventiveness, like creating of nuclear weapons?

And would it really be bad to be "hateful," so long as God completely prevented people from acting upon any choice proceeding from the hatred brewing in their souls?

[Gary Childress]

Okay. But what about the evils in men? Say, child exploitation, sex trafficking, slavery, rape, war, ethnic cleansing...

Could God be good, and prevent viruses and hurricanes and such, but allow the evil that men do to go on? Or would a genuinely good God have to deal with those as well?

God could give some people less active sex drives. God could make slavery unprofitable. God could make it so that there was no such thing as nuclear weapons. God could make some people less hateful. I assume there are lots of possibilities open to a god.

I'm assuming that, too.

But I see a bit of a hold back here...would a good God stop people from misbehaving sexually, or from wanting to? Would it be okay for people to really want to enslave others, but not be able to do it merely because of profit margins? Would a good God allow good inventiveness, but intervene to prevent bad inventiveness, like creating of nuclear weapons?

And would it really be bad to be "hateful," so long as God completely prevented people from acting upon any choice proceeding from the hatred brewing in their souls?

Why not? Why wouldn't a good God give people more patience and virtue, etc. I'm not seeing any reason for a God to create evil if it could be avoided. Are you saying you like evil?

[Lacewing]

Would a good God allow good inventiveness, but intervene to prevent bad inventiveness, like creating of nuclear weapons?

If a good God were allowing all of it, what is the good God actually doing...after supposedly creating everything in the first place?

[Immanuel Can]

God could give some people less active sex drives. God could make slavery unprofitable. God could make it so that there was no such thing as nuclear weapons. God could make some people less hateful. I assume there are lots of possibilities open to a god.

I'm assuming that, too.

But I see a bit of a hold back here...would a good God stop people from misbehaving sexually, or from wanting to? Would it be okay for people to really want to enslave others, but not be able to do it merely because of profit margins? Would a good God allow good inventiveness, but intervene to prevent bad inventiveness, like creating of nuclear weapons?

And would it really be bad to be "hateful," so long as God completely prevented people from acting upon any choice proceeding from the hatred brewing in their souls?

Why not? Why wouldn't a good God give people more patience and virtue, etc. I'm not seeing any reason for a God to create evil if it could be avoided. Are you saying you like evil?

Not at all, Gary. I'm just trying to find out how far the accusation against God rationally goes.

So to summarize:

• A good God would prevent viruses.

• A good God would prevent hurricanes, cancer, bacteria, and other such similar evils.

• A good God would prevent slavery, exploitation rape, wars, and so on.

• A good God, you now say, would "give people more patience and virtue, etc."

How much more? How virtuous would a good God make people?

[Gary Childress]

I'm assuming that, too.

But I see a bit of a hold back here...would a good God stop people from misbehaving sexually, or from wanting to? Would it be okay for people to really want to enslave others, but not be able to do it merely because of profit margins? Would a good God allow good inventiveness, but intervene to prevent bad inventiveness, like creating of nuclear weapons?

And would it really be bad to be "hateful," so long as God completely prevented people from acting upon any choice proceeding from the hatred brewing in their souls?

Why not? Why wouldn't a good God give people more patience and virtue, etc. I'm not seeing any reason for a God to create evil if it could be avoided. Are you saying you like evil?

Not at all, Gary. I'm just trying to find out how far the accusation against God rationally goes.

So to summarize:

• A good God would prevent viruses.

• A good God would prevent hurricanes, cancer, bacteria, and other such similar evils.

• A good God would prevent slavery, exploitation rape, wars, and so on.

• A good God, you now say, would "give people more patience and virtue, etc."

How much more? How virtuous would a good God make people?

As virtuous as was necessary to stop evil in the world.

[Immanuel Can]

Why not? Why wouldn't a good God give people more patience and virtue, etc. I'm not seeing any reason for a God to create evil if it could be avoided. Are you saying you like evil?

Not at all, Gary. I'm just trying to find out how far the accusation against God rationally goes.

So to summarize:

• A good God would prevent viruses.

• A good God would prevent hurricanes, cancer, bacteria, and other such similar evils.

• A good God would prevent slavery, exploitation rape, wars, and so on.

• A good God, you now say, would "give people more patience and virtue, etc."

How much more? How virtuous would a good God make people?

As virtuous as was necessary to stop evil in the world.

All the evil in the world? Could a genuinely good God allow a little bit?

[Gary Childress]

Not at all, Gary. I'm just trying to find out how far the accusation against God rationally goes.

So to summarize:

• A good God would prevent viruses.

• A good God would prevent hurricanes, cancer, bacteria, and other such similar evils.

• A good God would prevent slavery, exploitation rape, wars, and so on.

• A good God, you now say, would "give people more patience and virtue, etc."

How much more? How virtuous would a good God make people?

As virtuous as was necessary to stop evil in the world.

All the evil in the world? Could a genuinely good God allow a little bit?

What would be the reason for allowing a little bit of evil?

[seeds]

It's hard for me to "make the best of it" when people are dying so horribly. I prefer to complain to the landlord...

Have you ever complained to your earthly landlord (the USA) about how he uses your rent money (taxes) to purposely and consciously rain down horrifying means of death and destruction upon children all over the world, just so that YOU, Gary Childress, can reap the benefits of having plenty of oil and other resources?

Do you also blame God for your own (look the other way) complicity in people “dying so horribly” via our drones and smart bombs, our backing of tyrannical regimes, and our crippling (medicine and food inhibiting) economic sanctions, just to name a few?

The point I am getting at is loosely depicted in the old (slightly adjusted) Biblical axiom:

“...why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's [God’s] eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?”

[Gary Childress]

It's hard for me to "make the best of it" when people are dying so horribly. I prefer to complain to the landlord...

Have you ever complained to your earthly landlord (the USA) about how he uses your rent money (taxes) to purposely and consciously rain down horrifying means of death and destruction upon children all over the world, just so that YOU, Gary Childress, can reap the benefits of having plenty of oil and other resources?

Do you also blame God for your own (look the other way) complicity in people “dying so horribly” via our drones and smart bombs, our backing of tyrannical regimes, and our crippling (medicine and food inhibiting) economic sanctions, just to name a few?

The point I am getting at is loosely depicted in the old (slightly adjusted) Biblical axiom:


“...why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's [God’s] eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?”

No. I hold people responsible for that. But God could make some people in our society less hateful and warlike, for the sake of the people who are getting the bombs rained on them.

[Immanuel Can]

As virtuous as was necessary to stop evil in the world.

All the evil in the world? Could a genuinely good God allow a little bit?

What would be the reason for allowing a little bit of evil?

None, perhaps. But I just want to check so I know how far your accusation against God would be likely to go. It seems now that you are (probably rightly) rejecting the idea that a truly good God could allow even a little bit of evil, right?

Well, what about the evil Gary has done? It might not be much. He's probably a waaaaay better person than IC. But even the best of us isn't always all that good; and which one of us doesn't look back on something in life and say, "That was bad...I shouldn't have done that...if I had the chance again, I wouldn't have.."?

[Gary Childress]

All the evil in the world? Could a genuinely good God allow a little bit?

What would be the reason for allowing a little bit of evil?

None, perhaps. But I just want to check so I know how far your accusation against God would be likely to go. It seems now that you are (probably rightly) rejecting the idea that a truly good God could allow even a little bit of evil, right?

Well, what about the evil Gary has done? It might not be much. He's probably a waaaaay better person than IC. But even the best of us isn't always all that good; and which one of us doesn't look back on something in life and say, "That was bad...I shouldn't have done that...if I had the chance again, I wouldn't have.."?

God could make me better too. Then maybe I wouldn't go to hell or whatever for my "evils". BTW, I'm sure God has killed more people in a single plague than I've ever killed (0). So that makes God a bit more bloodthirsty than me, I would think. But sure, make me a better person too if I have faults I'm unaware of.

EDIT: And while God is at it, maybe work on him or herself too.