seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:17 pm
seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:07 am
...you are nevertheless
incapable (due to your closed-mindedness) of entertaining the notion that your mind (soul/consciousness) can (and will) stand apart from it [the universe] at the moment of death.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:46 am
So far there is no convincing proof there is a real independent soul that can survive physical death.
Right you are.
However, I have gone to great lengths in other threads to explain why it could possibly be devastating to humanity (devastating to the very purpose of the earth) if we were allowed to understand that
"life-after-death" (in a higher form and a higher [more wondrous] context of reality) is irrefutably true.
And that is precisely why I am suggesting that the truth of the reality of life-after-death is
purposely kept hidden from us.
Why?
So that we are not tempted to seek it out prematurely.
Indeed, if you are looking for something that counters P1 of your syllogism...
I have not read your argument in the various threads on this point.
If the above bolded to 'the why' is your answer, then it is a mere form of escapism and intellectual cowardice.
It is a very natural resultant of the existential crisis for the majority to seek a soul that survives physical death.
The seeking of the life after death have been doing going for eons, note the mummification of the Egyptians and others. There is the idea the soul which can avoid hell and enter into heaven and paradise from the Abrahamic religions and others.
The one very serious problem of tempting to seek it out prematurely [your concern] is that of the suicide bombers driven by this premature motive which at present is happening with Muslims as promised by the Islamic doctrine. However such happenings are
rare [but of heavy impact] relative to 1.4 billion Muslims.
P1. Absolute perfection is an impossibility to be real.
...then look no further than the utter perfection of the "dream-like" illusion of this universe and how it completely (and
intentionally) fools intelligent humans (such as yourself) into believing that it is a product of chance, and thus convinces many humans that this material dimension of reality might just be
"all there is" to life and existence itself...
...(which is precisely the effect that this
absolutely "perfect" illusion is designed to produce).
Talking about strawman, you are the one who is constructing strawman[s] regularly as above.
Your 'utter perfection' [at most relative] above has no relevance to the absolute perfection in my P1 - that is a typical strawman.
Where did I mention 'chance?' You are introducing 'chance' to contrast your falsehood deliberate creation by a deity.
I have written in various posts that my approach is that of top-down [no focus on chance] rather than bottom-up. This relies on what is empirically observable, verifiable and justifiable within
a credible framework and system of knowledge [FSK] where science is the most credible at present.
Note whatever your spiritual claims they cannot be verified and justified within the scientific FSK [the most credible FSK at present]. If you are relying on your own VERY subjective one person FSK, then you are implying you have a better method of knowledge than science?
If your personal FSK is more reliable than science, then you deserve a Nobel Prize?
So prove your FSK is reliable and credible.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:46 am
Your thought experiment however does not serve the intended purpose we are driving at, i.e. the existence of a panentheistic God as real.
No, little V, you are deviously twisting things around, for that was not the intended purpose of my thought experiment.
The intended purpose of my thought experiment was my
"biennial exercise in futility" to get you to see that the premise of your thread is based on a strawman argument.
I say "biennial" because it was just a little over two years ago when we had the following exchange...
Your ad hominen is merely a defense mechanism to sustain a shaken consonance.
You are the one who is constructing strawman[s] as I had shown so many times, resorting to ad hominen, violence and making noises.
seeds wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:09 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:09 am
I have even explained why people are rejecting my claims and I have squashed their initial counters till they have none left,...
No, Veritas, you merely refuse to accept the validity of people’s counters until they tire of dealing with your bullheadedness.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:09 am
...then they will resort to all sort of condemnations...
Yes, out of sheer exasperation of your inability to understand the flimsiness of your arguments.
The flimsiness is from the flimsiness of your heavily 'dissonanced' mind and driven to make unverifiable claims based on personal faith.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:09 am
Note my argument is a short one;
- P1. Absolute perfection is an impossibility to be real
P2. God, imperatively must be absolutely perfect
C. Therefore God is an impossibility to be real.
All you need is to be prove P1 or P2 is false.
The only thing I can prove in this situation is how foolish I am for continuing to argue with someone who has (as mentioned earlier) a sense of logic equivalent to that of a flat-earther.
For some inexplicable reason, you just cannot seem to get it into your head that your
P2...
...
“God, imperatively must be absolutely perfect”...
...is complete and total nonsense.
As I stated back then,...
seeds wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:09 am
...you merely refuse to accept the validity of people’s counters until they tire of dealing with your bullheadedness...
...and that's pretty much where I am right now.
However, I must admit, I am impressed with the pit bull-ish tenacity with which you cling to your false premise....
...Bad dog!
If only you were promoting something positive and uplifting for humanity, instead of your hopeless ("life has no ultimate purpose")
nihilism.
_______
As I had stated you are merely making noises and ad hominen to calm your heavily shaken 'dissonanced' mind [subliminally].
As I had insisted the only valid currency in this forum [Philosophy] is valid and sound arguments.
I am sure there is no problem with the structure of my syllogism.
I suggest you review each word thoroughly from the widest to the narrowest sense in my premises before you arrive with your final views.
However I am not confident you will be objective in this case but will be driven by confirmation bias.
You don't seem to realize you are in a sort of 'drunken' state [subliminally] as driven by cognitive dissonance thus has to cling to whatever you can to hold on to whatever consonances you have on hand. You are more of a flat-earther than what you claim of me.
If only you were promoting something positive and uplifting for humanity, instead of your hopeless ("life has no ultimate purpose") nihilism.
Once the majority can unleash themselves from this bondage that is driven by their inherent desperate cognitive dissonance to seek consonance from an illusory deity, they will free from the greatest suffering a human has to endure.
Free does not mean it will go away, but rather one will have to skill to manage and module this inherent cognitive dissonance.
When freed, then the majority of humans can contribute to work on perpetual peace. Note my long engagements [many threads] in the Philosophy of Morality threads.
Note Kant's Vision and Mission;
1. What can I know? - Epistemology [accomplished]
2. What should I do? - Morality and Ethics [structure accomplished]
3. From 1&2 What can hope for? Perpetual Peace
Kant: Perpetual Peace
https://www.amazon.com/Perpetual-Peace- ... 159986861X
Kant had already provided answers to 1 & 2, I have relied on them with improvisations and when the majority of humans has achieved reasonable progress in 1 & 2, then perpetual peace will follow naturally.
I am very optimistic of progress on my side to these two following projects;
1.
The Human Genome Project - completed awaiting positive use.
2.
https://www.humanconnectome.org/]Human ... me Project - progressing
On the other hand while your illusory deity can give comforts of consonance based on faith purely for your selfish reasons, what can your claims of an illusory deity provide for humans in the future?
Your ideology has no obvious progressive positive trends [since 5000 years ago] on any potential good for the future.
Whatever ... the only valid currency in this forum [Philosophy] is valid and sound arguments.