Imperefct God

[Greatest I am]

The unique nature of human beings does not provide them with any specific predetermine behavior.[/i][/b]

The above is wrong.

We are born being led by our selfish genes and nature to join a tribe. This takes cooperation.

That means that we naturally and always default to cooperation and not competition.

This baby experiment shows this truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LIb22-5Lwg

Regards
DL

Well there's not much point in discussing this since you've apparently been completely taken in by this pseudo-scientific physchobabble.

We are tribal by nature and know to head for the tit when first hungry. Intelligent people know this.

That is a proof of concept that shows that we are true to our instincts and selfish survival natures.

Intelligent people know this.

Where is your proof of concept?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

and absolute mind, create it.

A lot of speculation, given that we have never found this absolute mind.

Faith based thinking, and supernatural based thinking is handy for problem solving, but not for describing reality.

If there is an infinity, then as science says, every possibility becomes a probability.

We would all have our twins in some other universe doing the same thing we are doing sometimes, as well as a bunch of other variations.

Such a mind wold want to be known to it's creation if sentient. This is plain for strong personalities.

The fact that it, like all other such creators is silent, is proof that it does not exist.

It would not have an ego we would be best to ignore it, given it's poor communication skills.

Regards
DL

[Belinda]

Greatest I am wrote:

A lot of speculation, given that we have never found this absolute mind.

Don't you believe in other minds?

[Dubious]

What is an absolute mind anyway? How does it manifest itself? Was there ever a record of humans having encountered one. More likely is the very high probability that absolute mind is absolute rubbish!

[RCSaunders]

If it is infinite it is impossible to identify its defining attribute.

Nothing has just one defining attribute. You just named what you think is one of reality's defining attribute, that it is infinite. Even if that is one of them (and that really is in question), it's not the only one. For example:

Reality is all that is the way it is. It is all that exists, or existence itself. It consists of everything that exists ontologically, that is, all physical entities, living and conscious organisms, as well as all that exists epistemologically, that is, which exists only as the creation of or in human consciousness, like all knowledge, language, mathematics, logic, science, history, literature, etc.

Of course reality has attributes. That which has no attributes does not exist at all. What would it be?

I like your reply! I sort of agree "Nothing has just one defining attribute. "It depends on the narrative being told. I was thinking for instance of a very specific disease of which the defining attribute is the causal organism. However the narratives the best scientists tell of things like scarlet fever, smallpox, or covid-19, are just that----narratives.

There are many stories that have been and are told about infectious diseases (witches, miasmas) and also present day conspiracy theories .

Yes, I did name reality as infinite. That is part of my preferred ontological narrative not the moon of truth itself. Part of the story I tell is that reality is much as you say it is, except that I'd also say reality is infinite and does not exist except as centres of consciousness , and absolute mind, create it.

We're not going agree, I'm afraid. Ontological existence exists independently of anyone's awareness or knowledge of it; only epistemological existence is dependent on human consciousness. I know you will not agree with that, and I'm certainly not trying to convince you, only explaining my view as you did yours.

We don't have to agree. It will only matter if we happen to discuss something dependent on our different premises in the future. I'll try to remember what yours is.

[RCSaunders]

The above is wrong.

We are born being led by our selfish genes and nature to join a tribe. This takes cooperation.

That means that we naturally and always default to cooperation and not competition.

This baby experiment shows this truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LIb22-5Lwg

Regards
DL

Well there's not much point in discussing this since you've apparently been completely taken in by this pseudo-scientific physchobabble.

We are tribal by nature and know to head for the tit when first hungry. Intelligent people know this.

That is a proof of concept that shows that we are true to our instincts and selfish survival natures.

Intelligent people know this.

Where is your proof of concept?

I'm not asking you to agree with anything. I have no interest in convincing you. Believe whatever your best reason convinces you is true.

If your were sincerely interested in the rational basis for my views, I'd be glad to provide you with links that explain them in detail. They are not the kind of thing one can explain in, "fifty words or less." Just name something I've said that you question and I'll provide a link to where I've explained my position in detail.

[Belinda]

We're not going agree, I'm afraid. Ontological existence exists independently of anyone's awareness or knowledge of it; only epistemological existence is dependent on human consciousness. I know you will not agree with that, and I'm certainly not trying to convince you, only explaining my view as you did yours.

We don't have to agree. It will only matter if we happen to discuss something dependent on our different premises in the future. I'll try to remember what yours is.

RCSaunders, very good. We will agree to disagree. I appreciate your effort to remember my claim. My claim is not the same as me and I may change my mind. An opportunity to change my mind is why I attend these forums.

[gaffo]

I don't have to. Christ denies that they are His. I just take His word for that.

thats the easy way out.

No, that's the Christian way to discern the truth of the matter.

nope - its the easy way out, just like the Sufi Muslims ay per the Wahabbist killers "well they were not 'real muslims" -same with the Siekks in Vancover that killed 280 on the plane from Vaancuzer to Europe in ealry 80s (retribution for India's Operation Blue Star (they also killed the indian PM indra ghani that same year - for the same reaon) - and like Pol Pot a Buddist that murdered 2 millions.

you can play the coward like the cowardly Buddists, Sieks and Muslims and say the standard "well they were not on eof us" - or you can man up and admit they are in your camp and FIGHT THEM - and defeat them if you can.

but firs tyou have to admit them into your camp - otherwise you are justa pussy enabler of evil in your God's name - while they kill and main in your God's name, you just say - we they are reall yone of us................ya sure - as long as you deny and deny and deny and sit on the sidelines you enable them and so in effect side with them..

that goes for Muslims and Seiks and Jews ad all the rest!!!!!!!! - iether you stand up and admit there are asshole amoung you and FIGHT them - or you puss out and enable them by denial and none fight - and so in effect affirmation of assholerly).

where do you stand IC? - i far on the wrong side of right.

[Dontaskme]

where do you stand IC? .

Human beings have evolved a natural intelligence that has vastly superceded the idea ... there is a ''Man and God relationship''

In other words, the idea has long been kicked to the curb where it belongs.

Until IC can answer honestly the question...''Who told you you are a Christian'' ?

Until IC pipes up with an honest answer to that question...He will just continue to Bluff his way through life, and pull the wool over many others whom he is trying to convince. This is how belief works, it's a form of mental manipulation, the mind and it's contents are a self-sustaining - self-referential feedback loop, getting stuck there is common, because the mind can only relate to itself. There is no other reference frame.

Intelligent people have been able to free themselves from this self-made groove. But for most, the habit is a hard habit to break. A man and his God are like two peas in a pod. . cosy, and not for turning. Let IC have his belief, for he is nothing without it, and he secretly knows it...and is why he can only Bluff his way through life.




.

[Belinda]

where do you stand IC? .

Human beings have evolved a natural intelligence that has vastly superceded the idea ... there is a ''Man and God relationship''

In other words, the idea has long been kicked to the curb where it belongs.

Until IC can answer honestly the question...''Who told you you are a Christian'' ?

Until IC pipes up with an honest answer to that question...He will just continue to Bluff his way through life, and pull the wool over many others whom he is trying to convince. This is how belief works, it's a form of mental manipulation, the mind and it's contents are a self-sustaining - self-referential feedback loop, getting stuck there is common, because the mind can only relate to itself. There is no other reference frame.

Intelligent people have been able to free themselves from this self-made groove. But for most, the habit is a hard habit to break. A man and his God are like two peas in a pod. . cosy, and not for turning. Let IC have his belief, for he is nothing without it, and he secretly knows it...and is why he can only Bluff his way through life.




.

I too detect IC's unwillingness to think for himself without recourse to the Bible for his chosen authority.

I think you are a little unfair to people who try to re-think what 'God' might be without referring to some Authority or authorities to validate them. That includes yourself who would I surmise believe in Brahman/Atman.

(DAM, are you who writes under the pseudonym Dontaskme one individual or two? I mean,are there two people using your transmitter?)

[Lacewing]

Human beings have evolved a natural intelligence that has vastly superceded the idea ... there is a ''Man and God relationship''

In other words, the idea has long been kicked to the curb where it belongs.

Until IC can answer honestly the question...''Who told you you are a Christian'' ?

Until IC pipes up with an honest answer to that question...He will just continue to Bluff his way through life, and pull the wool over many others whom he is trying to convince. This is how belief works, it's a form of mental manipulation, the mind and it's contents are a self-sustaining - self-referential feedback loop, getting stuck there is common, because the mind can only relate to itself. There is no other reference frame.

Intelligent people have been able to free themselves from this self-made groove. But for most, the habit is a hard habit to break. A man and his God are like two peas in a pod. . cosy, and not for turning. Let IC have his belief, for he is nothing without it, and he secretly knows it...and is why he can only Bluff his way through life.

Good post, DAM.

I think people also will sometimes do almost anything to avoid being "wrong", even if that means perpetuating an illusion or (devolving into) some kind of insanity. One's ego may prevent them from acknowledging that they don't know much of anything, including what they thought they knew for (perhaps) many years of their life. Without an idea/belief to attach their identify to, it may feel like a death for one's ego. That fear and resistance is what keeps people stuck and unevolving... even as they suspect there may be more truth just beyond the boundaries of their thinking.

I think there is always more... and there's some freedom, joy, and comfort that comes with accepting and relaxing into that.

[Lacewing]

DAM, are you who writes under the pseudonym Dontaskme one individual or two? I mean,are there two people using your transmitter?

I think she has multiple personalities. They may not be aware of each other.

[Dubious]

Human beings have evolved a natural intelligence that has vastly superceded the idea ... there is a ''Man and God relationship''

In other words, the idea has long been kicked to the curb where it belongs.

Until IC can answer honestly the question...''Who told you you are a Christian'' ?

Until IC pipes up with an honest answer to that question...He will just continue to Bluff his way through life, and pull the wool over many others whom he is trying to convince. This is how belief works, it's a form of mental manipulation, the mind and it's contents are a self-sustaining - self-referential feedback loop, getting stuck there is common, because the mind can only relate to itself. There is no other reference frame.

Intelligent people have been able to free themselves from this self-made groove. But for most, the habit is a hard habit to break. A man and his God are like two peas in a pod. . cosy, and not for turning. Let IC have his belief, for he is nothing without it, and he secretly knows it...and is why he can only Bluff his way through life.

Well written post; it makes excellent sense. I think of these kinds of brains which feed only on belief as having reached its maximum mental state of equilibrium in which there is nothing more to be had, devoid of the energy required to make and keep thought dynamic. It's a condition where even the factual is no-longer capable of stirring things up. Only something deeply intrinsic, seemingly alien, gradually forcing itself into awareness can cause the sleeper to awake.

[Lacewing]

I think of these kinds of brains which feed only on belief as having reached its maximum mental state of equilibrium in which there is nothing more to be had, devoid of the energy required to make and keep thought dynamic. It's a condition where even the factual is no-longer capable of stirring things up. Only something deeply intrinsic, seemingly alien, gradually forcing itself into awareness can cause the sleeper to awake.

Yes, YES, YESSSS!!!!!

[Dontaskme]

That includes yourself who would I surmise believe in Brahman/Atman.

I am unfair you are right. I was unfair to myself for a long time believing in beliefs that have no more reality to them than a nightly dream character does.
Upon ultimate realisation, I had to let 'my' God go. I finally had to give it the freedom it deserves.

Advaita Vedanta is a ''pointing'' to the exact nature of reality. It's not exclusive to the Hindu religion. It's a self-evident knowledge to every believing creed of acceptance and understanding.

Brahman/Atman is just another conceptual fable. In reality, I literally stopped believing in fairy tales...I dropped them like there hot, I got real and raw. I slayed them dragons to the ground... RIP

(DAM, are you who writes under the pseudonym Dontaskme one individual or two? I mean,are there two people using your transmitter?)

Here we go again. . Sigh!!

I'll play parrot role again...repeating after me, there is no person who writes, there's just ghost writing, and many authors appear to this ONE reader of writing no one ever writ.

.