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Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:06 pm
by commonsense
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:50 am
Here is an argument, Why God is an Impossibility to be real.
There are two types of perfection for philosophical consideration, i.e.
- 1. Relative perfection
2. Absolute perfection
1. Relative perfection
If one's answers in an objective tests are ALL correct that is a 100% perfect score.
Perfect scores 10/10 or 7/7 used to be given to extra-ordinary performance in diving, gymnastics, skating, and the likes. So perfection from the relative perspective can happen and exist within man-made systems of empirically-based measurements.
2. Absolute perfection
Absolute perfection is an idea, ideal, and it is only a thought that can arise from pure reason and never the empirical at all.
Absolute perfection is an impossibility in the empirical, thus exist only theoretically.
Examples are perfect circle, square, triangle, etc.
Generally, perfection is attributed to God. Any god with less than perfect attributes would be subjected to being inferior to another's god.
As such, God has to be absolutely perfect which is the ontological god, i.e. god is a Being than which no greater can be conceived.
So,
- P1. Absolute perfection is an impossibility to be real
P2. God, imperatively must be absolutely perfect
C. Therefore God is an impossibility to be real.
Can any theist or non-theist counter the above?
God is an impossibility to exist in reality. God may exist as an idea. God is not an impossibility to exist as an idea. God is not an impossibility except in the case of the real world.
Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:26 am
by Veritas Aequitas
commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:06 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:50 am
Here is an argument, Why God is an Impossibility to be real.
There are two types of perfection for philosophical consideration, i.e.
- 1. Relative perfection
2. Absolute perfection
1. Relative perfection
If one's answers in an objective tests are ALL correct that is a 100% perfect score.
Perfect scores 10/10 or 7/7 used to be given to extra-ordinary performance in diving, gymnastics, skating, and the likes. So perfection from the relative perspective can happen and exist within man-made systems of empirically-based measurements.
2. Absolute perfection
Absolute perfection is an idea, ideal, and it is only a thought that can arise from pure reason and never the empirical at all.
Absolute perfection is an impossibility in the empirical, thus exist only theoretically.
Examples are perfect circle, square, triangle, etc.
Generally, perfection is attributed to God. Any god with less than perfect attributes would be subjected to being inferior to another's god.
As such, God has to be absolutely perfect which is the ontological god, i.e. god is a Being than which no greater can be conceived.
So,
- P1. Absolute perfection is an impossibility to be real
P2. God, imperatively must be absolutely perfect
C. Therefore God is an impossibility to be real.
Can any theist or non-theist counter the above?
1. God is an impossibility to exist in reality.
2. God may exist as an idea.
3. God is not an impossibility to exist as an idea.
4. God is not an impossibility except in the case of the real world.
Not sure what is your point.
Re 2, God can only exists as an idea in the mind.
Thus your 3 contradict 2, so, whatever is subsequent do not follow.
Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:39 pm
by commonsense
Restating 2 & 3:
God may be, or may not be, an idea in the mind.
It is possible, not impossible, for god to exist as an idea.
Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:24 pm
by Janoah
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:50 am
A
- P1. Absolute perfection is an impossibility to be real
P2. God, imperatively must be absolutely perfect
C. Therefore God is an impossibility to be real.
Can any theist or non-theist counter the above?
Regularity of nature is absolutely perfect, and really exists.
Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:41 pm
by Eodnhoj7
Given the probabilistic nature of empiricism given a long enough timeline of events anything is possible.
Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:08 am
by commonsense
Janoah wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:24 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:50 am
A
- P1. Absolute perfection is an impossibility to be real
P2. God, imperatively must be absolutely perfect
C. Therefore God is an impossibility to be real.
Can any theist or non-theist counter the above?
Regularity of nature is absolutely perfect, and really exists.
You seem to be saying that absolute perfection is real and exists. Name one thing that is absolutely perfect, is real and exists.
Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:13 am
by commonsense
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:41 pm
Given the probabilistic nature of empiricism given a long enough timeline of events anything is possible.
You are saying that anything is possible, so absolute perfection is possible according to you. But it doesn’t currently exist. You have not countered the argument above.
Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:06 pm
by Janoah
commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:08 am
Janoah wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:24 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:50 am
A
- P1. Absolute perfection is an impossibility to be real
P2. God, imperatively must be absolutely perfect
C. Therefore God is an impossibility to be real.
Can any theist or non-theist counter the above?
Regularity of nature is absolutely perfect, and really exists.
You seem to be saying that absolute perfection is real and exists. Name one thing that is absolutely perfect, is real and exists.
I said already, regularity of nature is absolutely perfect, and really exists.
The regularity of nature is not material.
Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:22 pm
by commonsense
Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:06 pm
commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:08 am
Janoah wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:24 pm
Regularity of nature is absolutely perfect, and really exists.
You seem to be saying that absolute perfection is real and exists. Name one thing that is absolutely perfect, is real and exists.
I said already, regularity of nature is absolutely perfect, and really exists.
The regularity of nature is not material.
Touche
Can you name another thing?
Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:46 pm
by Janoah
commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:22 pm
Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:06 pm
commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:08 am
You seem to be saying that absolute perfection is real and exists. Name one thing that is absolutely perfect, is real and exists.
I said already, regularity of nature is absolutely perfect, and really exists.
The regularity of nature is not material.
Can you name another thing?
only regularity of nature is absolutely perfect and real.
There can only be one absolutely perfect.
Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:14 pm
by commonsense
Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:46 pm
commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:22 pm
Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:06 pm
I said already, regularity of nature is absolutely perfect, and really exists.
The regularity of nature is not material.
Can you name another thing?
only regularity of nature is absolutely perfect and real.
There can only be one absolutely perfect.
Only regularity of nature—you seem to be saying that God isn’t absolutely perfect. Is that something you agree with?
Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:19 am
by Janoah
commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:14 pm
Janoah wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:46 pm
commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:22 pm
Can you name another thing?
only regularity of nature is absolutely perfect and real.
There can only be one absolutely perfect.
Only regularity of nature—you seem to be saying that God isn’t absolutely perfect. Is that something you agree with?
In my opinion, God is regularity of nature.
A little more about this - here,
"An immaterial reality, if it exists, how to present it?"
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33278
Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:40 pm
by Eodnhoj7
commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:13 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:41 pm
Given the probabilistic nature of empiricism given a long enough timeline of events anything is possible.
You are saying that anything is possible, so absolute perfection is possible according to you. But it doesn’t currently exist. You have not countered the argument above.
Absolute perfection is absolute thus is not limited to time and space but exists outside time and space as the totality of being. Given a timeline which does not end a resulting infinity of being occurs where being exists outside of time and space thus is no longer relative but absolute.
Dually, given the probabilistic nature of events, any event which occurs in said time and space is what is possible for said time and space. It is the best that can occur given that time and space therefore reflects relative perfection. This continuity of relative perfection results in perfection, as a universal, being absolute.
Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:19 am
by RCSaunders
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:41 pm
Given the probabilistic nature of empiricism given a long enough timeline of events anything is possible.
Not true. Statistical probability only pertains to what is not known. There is no probability that any past event could possibly have been anything other than what it was. Since every past event was once future event, there was never a time in the past when any later event could have been other than it was. Since every future event will eventually be a past event, no future event can possibly be other than what it is going to be. Probability only pertains to the fact that it is not known what those certain future events will be. There is only one possible future.
Re: God is an Impossibility
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:26 am
by RCSaunders
Janoah wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:24 pm
Regularity of nature is absolutely perfect, and really exists.
"Perfection," is a value term. To judge something as perfect there must be some criteria or scale against which that judgement can be made. No value pertains to nature (or existence) itself. It just is what it is.
Saying nature is perfect is as meaningless as saying nature is chaotic, evil, or cruel, which those who are not fond of nature frequently do.