Philosophy

[Harbal]

You are both LOOKING AT 'Reality', Itself. But what each of you 'see', depends on the WAY you are LOOKING. As you just somewhat explained.

See, if one just LOOKS AT and PERCEIVES 'things' from one PERSPECTIVE ONLY, then they WILL have DIFFERENT VIEWS, opinions, or PERSPECTIVES.

So if you could perceive the world from every possible perspective simultaneously, you would be experiencing true reality, is that what you are saying?

I'm not sure that idea has got legs.

[Wizard22]

What most agree on doesn't matter. To the game player, reaching level ten of Alien Bloodbath might be the only great accomplishment worth achieving. Should we only value our own life according to what it is worth to others?

It's not mutually exclusive.

Life can have great meaning individually, and socially. But the social aspect, notoriety, popularity, historical, is dependent upon what people agree upon. Again, it's no the be-all, end-all measure, per se. I do believe that people have changed the world fundamentally, without necessarily being known or popular, the "unsung hero" phenomenon.

Again, a lot of 'Meaning' is in the unseen and unknown.

[Harbal]

It's not mutually exclusive.

Life can have great meaning individually, and socially. But the social aspect, notoriety, popularity, historical, is dependent upon what people agree upon. Again, it's no the be-all, end-all measure, per se. I do believe that people have changed the world fundamentally, without necessarily being known or popular, the "unsung hero" phenomenon.

Again, a lot of 'Meaning' is in the unseen and unknown.

You seem to be basing your view on the proposition that technological advancement is some sort of holy grail, yet many people believe it will ultimately lead to our own destruction. Perhaps we have already gone too far beyond the environment that evolution shaped us to function in. Maybe we are continuing to forge a world that is increasingly at odds with our nature. It could be that we need less technology rather than more. When you are feeling "stressed out", going for a walk in the woods would probably bring you more relief than turning on your computer. Just a thought.

[Age]

But in order to get excited about it, or look forward to it, don't you have to have some concept of how our perception of reality might be changed?

Yeah, that's what Physics is all about, mechanical, empirical, objective change of Reality. Everybody changes the world, in some small way, by mere existence. Meaning of Life tends to shine in those who change the world significantly.

The human being who overdoses on drugs CHANGES the world 'significantly', for those around them.

If one person can happily spend his life playing computer games, and another needs to be making scientific breakthroughs at the cutting edge of physics to feel fulfilled, who is to say which life is more wasteful?

That's the subject of debate.

What, EXACTLY, is there to 'debate' here?

But it seems obvious that most will agree that wasting life playing computer games is less significant than others who do make great changes and accomplish great achievements.

Because absolutely EVERY thing is relative, to the observer, just maybe NOTHING 'needed' so-called 'great changes', and what one considers as 'accomplished great achievements', others might see that so-called 'achievement' NOT great AT ALL, and in fact just cause more issues or wrong doings.

[Wizard22]

You seem to be basing your view on the proposition that technological advancement is some sort of holy grail, yet many people believe it will ultimately lead to our own destruction. Perhaps we have already gone too far beyond the environment that evolution shaped us to function in. Maybe we are continuing to forge a world that is increasingly at odds with our nature. It could be that we need less technology rather than more. When you are feeling "stressed out", going for a walk in the woods would probably bring you more relief than turning on your computer. Just a thought.

It's a holy grail in terms of "Objective Reality". But that's a little different to the Subjective sources of Meaning that people find in life. Since it's not mutually exclusive, there in fact may not be some degrees of Meaning that can be shared between people. As you already mentioned, people find deep meaning in different things. And, furthermore, some individuals are truly inspirational compared to a 'common' or 'average' of people, that simply are not.

Meaning is the thread between them.

[Wizard22]

What, EXACTLY, is there to 'debate' here?

People disagree about what is Meaningful, or even that Life is or can be Meaningful...at least, I've argued against many Nihilists who claim such.

What say you?

Because absolutely EVERY thing is relative, to the observer, just maybe NOTHING 'needed' so-called 'great changes', and what one considers as 'accomplished great achievements', others might see that so-called 'achievement' NOT great AT ALL, and in fact just cause more issues or wrong doings.

I understand that

[Age]

WHO accepts that as 'Objective Reality'?

Scientists and Empiricists

Do you REALLY BELIEVE that you can speak FOR absolutely EVERY so-called "scientist" and "empiricist" here?

Would you like to put some names to a list of who's lives you BELIEVE have MORE 'meaning' than "others" have?

Alexander the Great, Isaac Newton, Plato, for starters.

How have these just OTHER human beings' lives supposedly had MORE 'meaning' than ANY other human being?

What does the 'meaning of life' even mean, to you?

Here is another question, 'WHY waste "another's" life?'

That's a moral dilemma here.

NOT for me it is.

People can be, and often are, misled into Falsities and Lies, and pursue goals that they first thought were very meaningful and important to them, only to later realize that they were duped.

Does this include 'you'?

If yes, then could this be happening and occuring right now, to 'you'?

Consider Religion, or political Propaganda, or Commercialism...aren't these the dangers and threats to a Meaningful Life?

Have you EXPLAINED to 'us' what 'a Meaningful Life' IS, EXACTLY, YET?

'Life' is, supposedly, 'precious' in relation to 'what', EXACTLY?

In relation to Death and Non-life.

So, WHY do 'you' WASTE 'your life', "wizard22"?

And, HOW are 'you' WASTING 'your life'?

Also, what have 'you', ACTUALLY done with 'your life', which is ACTUALLY BETTER or MORE MEANINGFUL than just enjoying 'your life' with drugs?

I've pursued Physical Theorems which I believe to be meaningful and important.

1. WHY, and in regards to 'what', EXACTLY?

2. You may deem or BELIEVE your life to be meaningful, to you, but does that make it so?

I can't go into detail about them publicly, until I have research and data completed.

WHY NOT?

quote=Wizard22 post_id=584176 time=1658136199 user_id=22733]They're meaningful TO ME, anyway. [/quote]

Just like the other human beings who use drugs, besides you, who BELIEVE their life is 'meaningful', correct?

I think the challenge is Meaning between people, between life, and 'objectively' so.

I do NOT understand this sentence.
quote=Wizard22 post_id=584176 time=1658136199 user_id=22733]What do you believe is a Meaningful Life?
[/quote]

1. A so-called 'Meaningful Life' does NOT really make sense to me.

2. I neither BELIEVE nor DISBELIEVE ANY thing.

[Age]

ALL 'things', TOGETHER, is just One Thing, ONLY?

Joining or combing EVERY 'thing' together, literally, Creates One Everything, which is just thee Universe, Itself.

There is ONLY One Everything, although there are MANY 'things'. Just like there is ONLY One Universe. The Universe, Itself, is the sum of ALL 'things', but It is still ONLY One 'Thing'.

'Everything' and EVERY 'thing' are two completely, and VERY, DIFFERENT 'things'.

Everything is One Thing ONLY. Whereas, EVERY thing is just a part of the One Everything.

I mean Everything as "sum of all parts", not the whole and totality "itself". So we approach that term differently.

There are probably a countless number of terms that 'we', and "others", so-call approach differently.

WHY do you think there is SO MUCH CONFUSION and MISUNDERSTANDING among human beings?

[Age]

You are both LOOKING AT 'Reality', Itself. But what each of you 'see', depends on the WAY you are LOOKING. As you just somewhat explained.

See, if one just LOOKS AT and PERCEIVES 'things' from one PERSPECTIVE ONLY, then they WILL have DIFFERENT VIEWS, opinions, or PERSPECTIVES.

So if you could perceive the world from every possible perspective simultaneously, you would be experiencing true reality, is that what you are saying?

Yes. FINALLY someone got it.

I'm not sure that idea has got legs.

Maybe not, but it has got an Eye.

[Harbal]

It's a holy grail in terms of "Objective Reality".

I'm not sure that the term "objective reality" even means anything, but assuming there is such a thing, we are not designed to experience it. Our physical and psychological makeup is geared for optimum performance within the reality our unaugmented senses present to us. Why on eath would we think that we would fare better in a state that is alien to us?

[Age]

What, EXACTLY, is there to 'debate' here?

People disagree about what is Meaningful, or even that Life is or can be Meaningful...at least, I've argued against many Nihilists who claim such.

What say you?

I say, I do NOT do 'debate'.

I will now also say, You asked the question, 'What is the Meaning of Life?' Which is VERY DIFFERENT to, 'What is Meaningful?'

What is 'Meaningful?' is 'Life', Itself. It is, literally, full of 'meaning', which, by the way, ALL of 'it' is given and provided by 'you', human beings.

Because absolutely EVERY thing is relative, to the observer, just maybe NOTHING 'needed' so-called 'great changes', and what one considers as 'accomplished great achievements', others might see that so-called 'achievement' NOT great AT ALL, and in fact just cause more issues or wrong doings.

I understand that

[Age]

It's a holy grail in terms of "Objective Reality".

I'm not sure that the term "objective reality" even means anything, but assuming there is such a thing, we are not designed to experience it. Our physical and psychological makeup is geared for optimum performance within the reality our unaugmented senses present to us. Why on eath would we think that we would fare better in a state that is alien to us?

Discovering and understanding who and what 'we' are, EXACTLY, will CHANGE 'your view' of what state is ACTUALLY 'alien' to 'us'.

[Harbal]

Discovering and understanding who and what 'we' are, EXACTLY, will CHANGE 'your view' of what state is ACTUALLY 'alien' to 'us'.

You mean like discovering we don't have gills influences our view of our suitability for living under water?

[Age]

Discovering and understanding who and what 'we' are, EXACTLY, will CHANGE 'your view' of what state is ACTUALLY 'alien' to 'us'.

You mean like discovering we don't have gills influences our view of our suitability for living under water?

NO, I was meaning absolutely NOTHING like 'that'.

[Harbal]

NO, I was meaning absolutely NOTHING like 'that'.

I wonder what you did mean, then.