Philosophy Now Forum

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:34 pm

Greylorn Ell wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:16 am Before attempting to address such a subject, would not the occasional wise and thoughtful philosopher first define exactly what a mind is?

GL

Mind is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience, freely decide, and cause.

in my neck of the woods, we call that the soul

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:00 pm

Greylorn Ell wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:42 am It is. However, minds have yet to effectively define the nature of a mind.
GL

How about minds are computers?

Pick your favourite model of computation...

I made a living with computers for half a century, and found that it was no big deal getting rubes to believe that a thought process controlled their behavior; however, that thought process was in the mind of a programmer, not a machine.

Computers are incapable of abstract thought, as are way too many humans.
GL

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:05 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:34 pm

Greylorn Ell wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:16 am Before attempting to address such a subject, would not the occasional wise and thoughtful philosopher first define exactly what a mind is?

GL

Mind is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience, freely decide, and cause.

in my neck of the woods, we call that the soul

That's a perfect definition for a few good old boys parked on stumps in the woods, sharing a few 6-packs and being careful not to ask about the origin and purpose of the soul, or how, if the soul is a spirit as commonly believed, can it interact with a material body.

Greylorn Ell wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:27 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:05 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:34 pm
Mind is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience, freely decide, and cause.

in my neck of the woods, we call that the soul

That's a perfect definition for a few good old boys parked on stumps in the woods, sharing a few 6-packs and being careful not to ask about the origin and purpose of the soul, or how, if the soul is a spirit as commonly believed, can it interact with a material body.

as I sit here, sippin' shine, fingerin' my banjo: I reckon souls grow...man is a composite being: an irrevocable mix of spirit (or soul) and flesh, or -- if you prefer -- information and matter...it's not too far off to think of mind or spirit or soul as software and the body/brain as hardware, each radically different from the other, each useless without the other

as to purposes: god will tell you (first, I hope)

Not a problem! For half the population, especially in the U.S., you can't miss what you never had!

Greylorn Ell wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:21 pm I made a living with computers for half a century, and found that it was no big deal getting rubes to believe that a thought process controlled their behavior; however, that thought process was in the mind of a programmer, not a machine.

Computers are incapable of abstract thought, as are way too many humans.
GL

Feynman made a fine point here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipRvjS7q1DI

If you are beginning to compare things abstractly then any answer goes.

Can a computer play chess like a human? No!
Can a computer win at chess against a human? Yes!

The way computers think and the way humans think are both "different" and "the same". Depending on your "sameness" and "difference" heuristic.

If you think the "thought process" is in the "mind of the programmer" then you never stepped outside of the imperative programming paradigm.
In Logic programming you define the goal, and then the optimiser takes over.

bahman wrote: ↑Sat May 16, 2020 9:50 pm Minds are not due to/subjected to ideas. Therefore, they have no location.

If "they" do not have a location, this would imply that they either:

1) Do not exist at all
or
2) That they have no boundary and are as such infinite in extension (they are "everywhere at the same time")

Which one is it?

AlexW wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:59 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sat May 16, 2020 9:50 pm Minds are not due to/subjected to ideas. Therefore, they have no location.

If "they" do not have a location, this would imply that they either:

1) Do not exist at all
or
2) That they have no boundary and are as such infinite in extension (they are "everywhere at the same time")

Which one is it?

mebbe I'm defective, or belong to an earlier model of person, cuz my mind is located inside me...specifically: between my ears

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:10 am mebbe I'm defective, or belong to an earlier model of person, cuz my mind is located inside me

Yeah... you've missed a few updates mate.

AlexW wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:27 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:10 am mebbe I'm defective, or belong to an earlier model of person, cuz my mind is located inside me

Yeah... you've missed a few updates mate.

fuckin' gates, always sellin' shit people don't need

I'll stick with my current operatin' system

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:09 am I'll stick with my current operatin' system

Your hardware might not support the new update anyway ... requires a mighty quantum processor

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:10 am

AlexW wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:59 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sat May 16, 2020 9:50 pm Minds are not due to/subjected to ideas. Therefore, they have no location.

If "they" do not have a location, this would imply that they either:

1) Do not exist at all
or
2) That they have no boundary and are as such infinite in extension (they are "everywhere at the same time")

Which one is it?

mebbe I'm defective, or belong to an earlier model of person, cuz my mind is located inside me...specifically: between my ears

Then if your mind is located inside you, then you know location, and this location must be infinitely everywhere at once ...right?

Then if your mind is located inside you, then you know location, and this location must be infinitely everywhere at once ...right?

of course not

right now, I'm sittin' in a chair in my livin' room, in a house, in Church Point, LA.

I'm in one place...my bones, blood, muscles, brain are in one place...my mind (or soul or spirit) is irrevocably intertwined with my flesh, so my mind is in one place

Even conventional methods of determining location are all relative. There is no base for locating physical objects. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle addresses this.

Your wave function exists at all locations at the same time.

The wave function is a mathematical description/model of "mind".

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:27 pm Then if your mind is located inside you, then you know location, and this location must be infinitely everywhere at once ...right?

of course not

right now, I'm sittin' in a chair in my livin' room, in a house, in Church Point, LA.

I'm in one place...my bones, blood, muscles, brain are in one place...my mind (or soul or spirit) is irrevocably intertwined with my flesh, so my mind is in one place

your spirit is entangled in every word you utter (communication you make...)

-Imp