Hell

[Age]

Hell exists. Hell by itself is not a bad thing since evil is not synonym to bad.

What is 'hell' synonymous to, to you?

A place of pain, disgust, etc. Some people enjoy pain.

Some people also enjoy being disgusted at or with others, and things as well. But I am not sure what people enjoy has to do with this. Anyway:

Where does hell exist, to you?

And, what is 'hell' exactly, to you?

[Age]

So you believe in unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls because there is no empirical evidence that shows they do not exist.

I do not believe in those things.

Why did you assume I did?

It's called satire. You argued that there is no empirical evidence that shows God does not exist as thought that made belief in God rational and I was illustrating that belief in unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls is just a reasonable if lack of empirical evidence makes them reasonable.

But I did not argue that at all.

Why did you assume I did?

You made the claim; "There is no empirical evidence to show God/s exist, quite the opposite", which infers that there is empirical evidence to show that God does not exist. So, What is the empirical evidence that shows God does not exist?

What's empirical evidence the unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls don't exist? So you have not reason to believe they do not exist.

What has this got to do with anything I have said and asking you to clarify?

Are you saying that there is empirical evidence that shows God does not exist?

If yes, then what is the empirical evidence that shows God does not exist?

If, however, you are not saying that, then what was your "quite the opposite" remark in relation to exactly?

If you do not have the evidence or proof to back up and support your claims before you make a claim, then I suggest do not make that claim at all.

Prove to whom? I don't believe in anything without evidence.

Okay, now we are getting somewhere. Do you believe God does or does not exist?

I don't care if you do. I'm only telling you what I believe, and as far as I know, one is free to make any claim they like on this forum without answering to you. Isn't the right?

What are you on about?

I was just trying to clarify what you are actually claiming, and now I am trying to clarify what you actually believe?

Well it appears you seem to believe that you have concluded what the one and only actual Truth IS. Although absolutely every thing you just said here is contradictory, absurd, NOT true, and/or just an assumption and/or belief, which is obviously absolutely WRONG.

But you already believe you KNOW what the actual Truth is, so I will just leave you with that. You obviously have no interest in learning and understanding what the actual Truth IS here.

That's fine. You do not have to agree with me, and may think whatever you want about my knowledge or lack thereof.

Are you at all aware that what you are saying here is describing 'you' exactly?

'You', "rcsaunders", are the one who believes God does not exist. 'You', "rcsaunders", are absolutely convinced by your very own reasons that this is absolutely true. 'You', "rcsaunders", expect others to believe the same as what you, "rcsaunders", does. I asked 'you', "rcsaunders", to back up and support your belief that God does not exist, 'you', "rcsaunders", even implied that you have the empirical evidence to support your belief here. So, it is up to 'you', "rcsaunders", to define and explain what you mean.

But so far you have not, and appears will not.



I do not insist there is a God. Remember it is 'you', "rcsaunders", who is here insisting that God/s do not exist.

Well, "insist," is not quite the right word. I know there is nothing supernatural, and no mystical or spiritual beings, but I do not care what superstitions others want to entertain. Believe whatever you like.

I'd be satisfied with a link to that post.

'God', in the visible sense, is thee one and only Universe, Itself.

'God', in the non visible sense, is thee one and only Mind, Itself.

Are they specific actual enough terms, for 'you'?

If yes, then can they be logically analyzed, by 'you'?

Oh yes. Since there is already a perfectly good word for the universe why is another word, "God," needed for the same thing. I certainly believe in the universe and see no reason to call it God, although I did a couple of articles that referred to the universe (or reality) as a metaphorical, "God." ["The Wisdom of Tathagatagarbha" It's satire.]

"Mind," is an attribute of a human being. There are no minds independent of the individual human beings who have minds. There is no more some mystical invisible, "mind," than there is some mystical invisible big toe. If there were no human beings there would be no minds or big toes.

By the way do 'you', "rcsaunders", have a definition for 'God', which you believe and insist does not exist? I also would love to know what 'your' definition of 'God' is.

Yes! A god is one of a class of imaginary or fictional things, like ghosts, leprechauns, unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls, that some people believe in.

Therefore, there is the actual reason WHY 'you' believe the very things that you do.

[Age]

What about those believers who believe God does not exist. Do they have the actual evidence that God does not exist and provide this evidence, or do they live by faith alone also?

Why do you call them believers?

Because they BELIEVE some thing.

Is a person a "believer" if they DON'T believe in something?

Even after all this time that I have been in this forum people appear to still have absolutely no clue nor idea in regards to what I have being saying about 'beliefs'.

One can, NOT believe in some thing, AND, still NOT believe in some thing else. If one is not believing some thing is true and also not disbelieving some thing is true, then that one is not a 'believer'. One can only obviously be a 'believer' if and when they are believing some thing is true

Such as yourself, below...

So you believe in unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls because there is no empirical evidence that shows they do not exist.

I do not believe in those things.

Just because I do not believe in these things that in a no of itself does not mean that I am believing in some thing else is true.

I have frequently stipulated: I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing.

And many people do not believe in a god. What is the difference between such things not believed?

It all depends on what is being believed.

Do any of those many people who do not believe in a God, believe that a God does not exist.

What do any of them believe?

[Age]

Why? Does the evidence not speak for itself? Just kidding.

The so called "evidence" apparently speaks for itself in regards to God not existing, because people are not able to provide any, even though they very strongly implied that there is actual evidence.

I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.

Regards
DL

Do you also laugh when believers talk of no evidence, when their own definition of 'whatever' says that there is evidence?

By the way, it could be said that I just laugh at 'believers', full stop, and/or non stop. 'you', so called "greatest I am", appear to be a very strong 'believer', correct?

I was unaware that there was a specific biblical definition of faith that says there is no evidence. Could you link us to this, as this will come in very handy in showing and providing more and further proof.

After a have my laugh, I give them this link on the logical fallacy, to show that it is impossible to show a negative.

To prove that a god does not exist, one would have to be able to look at all places in the universe at a given time.

That pesky god moves and you have to catch him on the run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyA8cIzosFU

Negatives can never be proven. Only positive claims can be.

It is to the one who cries wolf, to show the track and scat.

It is not to the other to prove that the wolf was never there.

Regards
DL

If you are a 'believer', then you are still a believer.

By the way, there is NO negative nor positive here.

[Age]

No argument on this.

When thy push their faith and belief, I being a mean S O B, tell them to prove they have it by doing what Jesus says they can in scriptures. All he did and more.

What did "jesus" say 'they' can do?

Where exactly did you get this knowledge from?

And, who is 'they'?

"They"; are those who lie and say they have faith or belief. If it were true, they could demonstrate really keen powers. Levitation, etc.

I do not see anyone floating about.

The only place with any writings of a Jesus/Yahweh combo is in the myth called the bible.

Even the good stuff, but mostly immoral tenets that Christians always run away from.

A shame that, given that those are what I like to chat on.

Good Christian apologetics is just about dead. They do not have a moral pot to p in and leave skid marks all over the place as they spin away.

Cowards can never be moral.

Regards
DL

Is that why you are not moral?

[Age]

one of the assumptions and beliefs that I see you have are that you assume and/or believe that I am claiming, or want to claim, that i personally know what the actual Truth of things is.

So you claim "there is only one actual reality", yet you don't know what it is? Is that correct?

Yes and no.

See it all depends on what you actually mean by that question, what I have actually said, and/or if you truly want to understand.

[Lacewing]

one of the assumptions and beliefs that I see you have are that you assume and/or believe that I am claiming, or want to claim, that i personally know what the actual Truth of things is.

So you claim "there is only one actual reality", yet you don't know what it is? Is that correct?

Yes and no.

See it all depends on what you actually mean by that question, what I have actually said, and/or if you truly want to understand.

Age...all of your word games, where you apply certain words (such as beliefs and assumptions) to people OTHER THAN yourself, while making your claims and assumptions that reveal beliefs behind them, is too dishonest and delusional to interact with. Trying to present yourself as so distinctly different may be convincing to you, but your claims reveal a great deal regardless of how you insist that people don't understand what you're really saying. Everybody other than yourself is not inept. Whatever awareness you think you have appears to be convoluted by the beliefs and assumptions you keep denying that you have. So it's just a big lie that you challenge people to crack.

In the quotes above, I repeated exactly what you've been saying -- and you cannot even respond to it. You dance around saying "it depends what YOU mean by that question". It's a simple clarifying question using your own words and you want to continually play games. You know nothing. You continually act like a delusional game-player. Until you can start being honest and generous rather than stroking your ego, you remain a self-absorbed phony.

[bahman]

What is 'hell' synonymous to, to you?

A place of pain, disgust, etc. Some people enjoy pain.

Some people also enjoy being disgusted at or with others, and things as well. But I am not sure what people enjoy has to do with this. Anyway:

Where does hell exist, to you?

Somewhere, in the infinite fold universe.

And, what is 'hell' exactly, to you?

A place of pain, disgust, etc.

[gaffo]

Hell exists within the majority of world's religions as a place where man is cuttoff from God

yep, Hell will be my future home for denying beleive in YHWH/the Gods/etc. in this life. assuming my atheism is wrong.

through man's attachment to illusion.

nope. I go to Hell forever due to my unbelief in God/s.

there is no empirical evidence to show God/s exist, quite the oppostie.

What is the empirical evidence that shows God does not exist?

By the way there is plenty of empirical evidence that clearly shows God does exist.

please, show me your God - before my eyes as "i am" then i'll convert.

until then you are all wet.

But maybe you just have a completely different view and use a completely different definition of what 'God' is, then what I see and have?

per Humanity/history of..........there are thousands of Gods.

and none - none that are not fools - claimed to know the mind of the gods (to know the mind of the gods means you have to be a god yourself).

You must be god to know God.

YHWH is the mind of the God you know i assume?

even if Baal is the one true God and not your YHWH?

or maybe the Assyrian's had the knowledge of the one/several True Gods? or the Aztecs? instead.

and your YHWH is just in your imagination - Baal being the True God - killed off via the Israeli conquest of the near east following a false god..................the true God lost forever with the death of last Caanite 1600 yrs ago.

People send themselves to hell

bullshit

[Age]

So you claim "there is only one actual reality", yet you don't know what it is? Is that correct?

Yes and no.

See it all depends on what you actually mean by that question, what I have actually said, and/or if you truly want to understand.

Age...all of your word games, where you apply certain words (such as beliefs and assumptions) to people OTHER THAN yourself, while making your claims and assumptions that reveal beliefs behind them, is too dishonest and delusional to interact with.

I suggest that if you want to make claims, especially allegations about "another", then you at least have some supporting evidence to back up your claims and allegations. So, what is your supporting evidence for your claim and allegation that I have assumptions and beliefs.

If you do not list the alleged assumptions and beliefs, and then explain why to they are my assumptions and beliefs, then I am not able to defend the Self, and reveal thee actual Truth of things. Are you aware that what you see and think or believe is and could well be just your very own reality?

By the way, Knowing some thing is true is distinctly very different from assuming and/or believing some thing to be true.

Trying to present yourself as so distinctly different may be convincing to you, but your claims reveal a great deal regardless of how you insist that people don't understand what you're really saying. Everybody other than yourself is not inept. Whatever awareness you think you have appears to be convoluted by the beliefs and assumptions you keep denying that you have. So it's just a big lie that you challenge people to crack.

If this is what you see and believe is true, then this is only what you will see, and conclude.

Are you aware of the direct correlation between what a lot of human beings see in "others" is just a direct reflection of them, thy self?

By the way, I have NEVER even thought any one was inept, let alone said it. In fact I have mentioned a few times now already about the actual ABILITY and POTENTIAL within ALL human beings.

As for "cracking" 'thee code', your words are well on the way in helping this being achieved here.

In the quotes above, I repeated exactly what you've been saying -- and you cannot even respond to it.

I responded to them. Obviously, just not in the way you liked nor hoped. See, your words were asked from a presumptive perspective, so my responses/answers were not of your wanting.

I responded to gauge how much interest you really have and how open you really are.

Also, from the Truly OPEN perspective there are a few ways to look at where your questions were coming from. So, the direct answers I provide could be all to easily misconstrued and/or misunderstood.

If you do not want to clarify yourself truly, then that is fine with me.

You dance around saying "it depends what YOU mean by that question".

If you call what I did "dancing", then that is okay with me. I call that gauging how much one wants to clarify thy self.

It's a simple clarifying question using your own words and you want to continually play games.

I answered your simple clarifying question with the very simple clarifying answer "Yes and no".

See, if your were truly interested in understanding my responses and answers, then you would ask further caring questions.

From one perspective, my answer is "yes", and, from another perspective my answer is "no". See, it all depends on what perspective you were asking that simple clarifying question from exactly.

So, what was your underlying intention in and meaning behind that question?

You know nothing. You continually act like a delusional game-player. Until you can start being honest and generous rather than stroking your ego, you remain a self-absorbed phony.

If that is what you see and believe is true, then that is what you will continue to see, and conclude. Some might also say that that may well be also just some sort of 'self-reflection'.

By the way, a "phoney" in relation to 'what' exactly?

[Age]

A place of pain, disgust, etc. Some people enjoy pain.

Some people also enjoy being disgusted at or with others, and things as well. But I am not sure what people enjoy has to do with this. Anyway:

Where does hell exist, to you?

Somewhere, in the infinite fold universe.

And, what is 'hell' exactly, to you?

A place of pain, disgust, etc.

This does not narrow it down nor clarify any thing. But if this is all that you have got, then so be it.

[Age]

yep, Hell will be my future home for denying beleive in YHWH/the Gods/etc. in this life. assuming my atheism is wrong.





nope. I go to Hell forever due to my unbelief in God/s.

there is no empirical evidence to show God/s exist, quite the oppostie.

What is the empirical evidence that shows God does not exist?

By the way there is plenty of empirical evidence that clearly shows God does exist.

please, show me your God - before my eyes as "i am" then i'll convert.

until then you are all wet.

But maybe you just have a completely different view and use a completely different definition of what 'God' is, then what I see and have?

per Humanity/history of..........there are thousands of Gods.

and none - none that are not fools - claimed to know the mind of the gods (to know the mind of the gods means you have to be a god yourself).

You must be god to know God.

YHWH is the mind of the God you know i assume?

even if Baal is the one true God and not your YHWH?

or maybe the Assyrian's had the knowledge of the one/several True Gods? or the Aztecs? instead.

and your YHWH is just in your imagination - Baal being the True God - killed off via the Israeli conquest of the near east following a false god..................the true God lost forever with the death of last Caanite 1600 yrs ago.

People send themselves to hell

bullshit

I am being quoted in this, but most of what is quoted to me, is not what I said. If any of this was in response to what I said, then it will need to be fixed up and quoted correctly, before I would know how to reply properly.

[attofishpi]

Do U really want to know what HELL is? --> and EVEN this aint it:-

DAY OF RECKONING

Two days of reckoning
I have felt
was it God's consciousness
that then I was dealt?
Feeling the chaos
the synapses switching
the heat of the Sun
and I'm just a son
why upon me
why should I see
the sea of the ocean
is in complete retreat
all of my knowledge
force fed to my pledge
my toes curling
over my soles near edge
the furnace burning
upon each thought is fraught
with the insatiable knowing
from which I was taught
for what I did
I must pay
too late to pray
I am the universe's prey
each thought twisted
upon itself
and I feel my flesh
no longer my self
but what does it matter
that is all I am
is my soul an ION
am I the ram
the beast
now fleeced
what did I pose
to this
far too many
QUEST_IONs
a bliss amiss
don't eat from the tree
or suck it and see
you'll be the sap
fool into its trap
where is my Christ
He doesn't help mice
that look down and wander
attempt to look up
and wonder
Y?

www.andrewseas.com

[Greatest I am]

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

I wonder if Jesus partook of mushrooms?

It depends on which version of Jesus you are looking at.

Likely,is as good of an answer as you will get.

Remember that we do not know if the Jesus of the bible ever existed.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

I know Satan. I have seen Him several times. I have tremendous amount of spiritual experiences. I had a vision Him in His chamber guarded by Draculas... Where is Hell? The reality has infinite folds. We are living in one of them.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

You are a poor boy buddy.

Regards
DL

I am a mind. Pure and simple. I know, I have arguments for my proposals in any discussion. I have experienced stuff that leads me to deduce the existence of you and others. The reality is a game between minds. Those who know the rules know how to manipulate you unless you are a member of them. Are you a member of The Highest that imposes laws?

Yes.

Regards
DL