indeed.
as we have scene - twice now.
dont be naive, germany was a democratic republic, and legally voted in Hitler, who then removed the democracy.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:16 amWithout sarcasm, this is actually a great point.artisticsolution wrote: ↑Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:55 pm Democracy sees to it they don't have to suffer their stupid choices forever.
American-style democracy takes for granted that people may sometimes be good, but also are NOT always good, not always smart, and don't always make the right choices. Thus, it checks and balances power in the hands of any individual, and at intervals, it allows for correction.
No form of totalitarianism, whether monarchy, dictatorship or communism, allows that. Instead, under such regimes, people suffer indefinitely the choices made by some putative authority figure, with voice, no second chance, and no prospect of change.
This is what it means to say, as per Disraeli, that democracy is not an ideal system -- while still recognizing that it's just the best thing we've ever discovered so far. After all, where in the world would you find a more congenial government system than in the democratic west? As has been often noted, whether of Cuba or of the Mediterranean migrants, "All the boats are going one way."
So, well said.
media consolidation - starting with Clinton and the radio stations (clear channel - SATAN!), then tv ownership, then newspapers. etc.Greta wrote: ↑Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:42 pm The best thing about democracy is that it is not one of the alternatives. All possible alternatives so far have been tried, rejected and tried again, and the non democratic systems still routinely produce the kinds of power abuses that prompt people to agitate for democracy.
Still, it's not looking like there is a choice due to the distortion of democracy by Rupert Murdoch and other media demigods.
now WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!!!!!!!! Henry and I talked to you about why "the minority is more important than the majority" - in that other thread 3 months ago or so - and you did not understand our point!
yes remove vacinations!!!!!!!!!!! let all get mumps, measles, rubbella, polio, and smallpox!philosopher wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:34 pmThe majority believes they are right. The majority of voters believe in foolish stuff that experts say are wrong. The majority says the experts are wrong, and the people are right.
dissagree with the above Basic income. i support raising miminum wage to around 10 bucks, but not recieving income without working.philosopher wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:15 pmThank you very much for this post.Charm wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:55 am Too many are electing too few to offices which will corrupt them, and fill their bank accounts.. In the process, in this deeply divided society, fully half the people do not have representation they voted for... Is this democracy???.. We are seeing a society divided, and destroyed by halves.. There will always be a majority to vote the minority into poverty, war, and extinction.. Consider this fact, that all civilizations have been created out of conquest, and the purpose of the state with its laws was to maintain peace between those elements making up society.. Majority rule is not keeping us united, not giving us peace, but is dividing us, and it is making civil war, war, and invasion more likely.. As much as before the Civil War, we are a house divided.. If this is the privilege of the parties, to divide and weaken us, then show me where their privileges are listed in the constitution.. They have the right of assembly, and more.. If; -We would not choose to be divided if we were a democracy, then why are we allowing the parties to divide us, and cooperate only in doing us no Good??? It is because we are no democracy.. And we can hardly divide the term when our rulers have done so much to sow division, and mutual antipathy.
This is the question: How can we have privileges which take far more than a majority to deny, and still keep our rights.. I Ask, Because; Rights are essential to life, but privilege is essential to power, and power is essential to wealth.. Would we vote to grow ever poorer and always be poor and vote that they will grow more wealthy while we suffer degradation and poverty.. It is possible, because by going along in that social, moral democratic sense, that is what we are doing.. I am just less inclined to do so, and because so many must consider their own survival, that if we cooperated with each other, we would have democracy apart from the government as it stands..
I'm going to answer your question:
What about a constitution that defines citizen rights as not only the right to vote, free speech etc. but also the right to welfare entitlements like Basic Income - that is, money given monthly to sustain yourself in your life, to afford a humble home, food, clothing, electricity etc. without requirement of work or other demands which are essentially slavery of the employers = the rich enslaving the workers?
This will free the citizens. This right should be granted in the constitution as, say 80-90 % of the established minimum income as Basic Income, only subject to reduction when other income is earned instead (like say 30 % off the Basic Income when you earn something, when the Basic Income turns into 0, you only pay taxes, no further reductions in anything). This will keep incentive to work, liberate the workers and create a healthy society where nobody can be deprived of their living just because they have another political opinion than their employers.
3/4 of "voters" can mandate a change to the Constution to no avail (are you an American? - if so you should know better). what is required is for 3/4 of the State Legislatures to vote for a change - to amend the constitution.philosopher wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:15 pm The constitution should entitle all people the right to free assembly and free speech against the government, but it cannot be changed without 3/4 of the voters voting "yes" to reform the constitution. This will make it virtually impossible to take away these rights/privileges of the people for any government, no matter how authoritarian it is.
we do, from us ;-(.henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:20 pm "What about a constitution that defines citizen rights as not only the right to vote, free speech etc. but also the right to welfare entitlements like Basic Income - that is, money given monthly to sustain yourself in your life, to afford a humble home, food, clothing, electricity etc. without requirement of work or other demands which are essentially slavery of the employers = the rich enslaving the workers?"
Who pays for it?
Where does this money come from?
Correct - those Rights are refered to as Nature Law Rights, and pre-1776 Brit Common Law Rights - such as the ones i mentioned in prior post and refered to in the affirmative in my Constitution's 9th amendment.
no, back candidates that will work to REVERSE Citizens United - and restore Gov by the people and for the people.henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:22 pm back candidates who promise to minimize the role of gvernment, and
I some quarters, I'm sure that's probably true. But I don't think it's "all" as you suggest.
To know why, you'd have to know about German history. It's not the kind of history you have in the U.S....and I know both.
This is terribly silly, as a comment, I have to say. And really, in all kindness, I have to say you'd do your view a better service if you settled down and used less implausible rhetoric. At the moment, nobody with sense is failing to detect the hyperbole.Trump is less tallented, and so has not been able to remove our "checks and balences" - but the next more able dictator will - and we will vote the SOB in having done so twice now - they were untallented and so unable to remove our Constutition fuilly.
wow, thanks for putting me in my place.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 1:48 pmTo know why, you'd have to know about German history. It's not the kind of history you have in the U.S....and I know both.
This is terribly silly, as a comment, I have to say. And really, in all kindness, I have to say you'd do your view a better service if you settled down and used less implausible rhetoric. At the moment, nobody with sense is failing to detect the hyperbole.Trump is less tallented, and so has not been able to remove our "checks and balences" - but the next more able dictator will - and we will vote the SOB in having done so twice now - they were untallented and so unable to remove our Constutition fuilly.
Good, after you put me in my place, i was beginning to wonder.
I don't hate him i fear him - more aptly i fear the electorate that elected him more.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 1:48 pm but here's the truth: for an American, there's actually zero reason to hate the guy.
agreed.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 1:48 pm He's basically just a bombastic American businessman, with a talent for showmanship.
disagree fully on all counts.
yes i know this. irrelevant.
agreed.
ibid
fully disagree, he is all ego - but without a "Vision beyond him" - so more a Stalin than a Hitler.
Clinton is a creep and a dick - and like Trump - BOTH are far more than "amoral" - why you think Bill was worse, when both are fully thugs is beyone me. welcome why you think Heir Trump is more moral than the worm Bill. (his wife 9Bill's - Donalds i think is ok gal - maybe not so smart, but not evil (has morals - though married for $$ clearly - so i not that - so he ain't mother terrisa) is of course no better).Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 1:48 pm And he's a bit amoral, but not as bad as, say, Clinton.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 1:48 pm (Why the Democrats want to pick on a "groper" when they also laud a serial rapist is beyond me, frankly...it smacks of real hypocrisy, I have to say.)
same here.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 1:48 pm Now, I don't care for either team. I just observe from outside.
economy is its own beast - presidents claim the credit when it goes well and blame the prior one when it flounders.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 1:48 pm That being said, I have to be impressed that Trump has done so much so fast, especially with the economy.
HA!!!!!!!! from the modicum you revealed above, i suspect you are Canadian!!!!!!!??????!!!!!!!!!Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 1:48 pm Much of what he's done has hurt my country, and we're feeling the pain quite sharply...but I have to recognize that he's done what an American president is supposed to do -- to contend vigorously for the interests of the American people, over and against foreign incursions.
pure bullshit!!!!!!!!! "sir" "that "man"" have attacked both the FBI and the CIA!!!!!!!!!!! undermining the Rule of Law/Checks and Balances.
ok - now i know i waste my time - goodbye bot.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 1:48 pm and he's broken the Democrat-media monopoly on public information.