~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

For all things philosophical.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.



To be honest with you, I asked for, your strongest held belief or opinion.


You provided me with a jumbled-up mess of phrases
that I could not determine if they formed one strongest held belief, were seperate catch-phraesr were just several play on words.



Could you possibly give me one strongly held belief that I could actually make sense of?





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The gaps in your posts reflect the gaps in your understanding.
What little content there is in this, your post, is a sad indictment of your general capability.
Would it be possible to offer you a strongly held belief that you are capable of understanding?? I doubt it.
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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.To be honest with you, I asked for, your strongest held belief or opinion.


You provided me with a jumbled-up mess of phrases
that I could not determine if they formed one strongest held belief, were seperate catch-phraesr were just several play on words.

Could you possibly give me one strongly held belief that I could actually make sense of?


.
Oh bear of little brain,
I gave you seven of my strongly held philosophical beliefs. Not jumbled at all as each is a separately held belief and only needs a phrase to express. Tell you what, I'll make it even simpler for you and number them so you can challenge each one. Fire away.

1. I am.

2. There is another English speaker.

3. Something cannot be and not be.

4. I am a body with senses in an external world.

5. There are phenomena.

6. There is something.

7. Nothing cannot be.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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1. I am.

One of the major foundations of basic philosophy is the question, Who Am I?
Which, obviously is direct opposite of I am.
You choose whatever vantage point you wish. Good luck my friend & I support you in whatever decision life gives you at this moment.



2. There is another English speaker.


Not sure how this can be a major belief or opinion but to rebut it is quite simple. There are about 7billion humans populating earth right now. Philosophically, you must try to imagine that there are other languages. MANY other languages and even more dialects. Please believe me when I say millions of people DO NOT speak English. So, in fact, there is not another English speaker.



3. Something cannot be and not be.

To be or NOT to be? - That was a question.
Again, a tad bit sophomoric but I will humor your request.
We live in a multidimensional universe. This is one of my basic philosophical tenants. We experience but one tiny sliver of reality. A reality, as Einstein would have us believe, that exists within a landscape of realized possibilities – but not necessarily a realized possibility for you. Or for me, or for any one of the 7billion people or so existing on earth. So yes, it is but perhaps not in our experience. So, something can and cannot be.


4. I am a body with senses in an external world.

Again, we are not our bodies. We are not our intellectual functions. We are ultimately – pure consciousness.
Kind-of basic stuff. Plus, philosophically, there is no external in our external reality. EVERYTHING is within us.
After revisiting my response above I realize that unless an individual enters into a state of deep philosophical understanding you cannot realize that we are nothing but pure consciousness and everything is within us. There is no real way that I think you will be able to understand. This is a deep philosophical realization.



5. There are phenomena.

This is just a rephrasing of your tightly held beliefs #3 & #4.



6. There is something.

You ARE repeating yourself.



7. Nothing cannot be.

I think you are tripping yourself up with grammar that touches upon being a double negative or just a flat-out play upon words. Think about this and then revisit some of my deep philosophical responses to your earlier questions within this list of seven.



* Life Pro Tip: Try to focus your attention within. Don't try immediately to put words to your state. Just be.



Hope this thread will help you focus and feel better about yourself in the future!








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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:One of the major foundations of basic philosophy is the question, Who Am I?
No it's not, that's psychoanalysis or bodged new-age western/'eastern' mysticism.
Which, obviously is direct opposite of I am.
No it's not as it explicitly acknowledges 'I am'.
You choose whatever vantage point you wish. Good luck my friend & I support you in whatever decision life gives you at this moment.
More nonsense from you.
2. There is another English speaker.

Not sure how this can be a major belief or opinion but to rebut it is quite simple. There are about 7billion humans populating earth right now. Philosophically, you must try to imagine that there are other languages. MANY other languages and even more dialects. Please believe me when I say millions of people DO NOT speak English. So, in fact, there is not another English speaker.
Hello!! Earth to the bear of little brain, you confirm my belief with your reply.
To be or NOT to be? - That was a question.
No, to be and not to be is the proposition and it's false on all occasions.
Again, a tad bit sophomoric but I will humor your request.
Actually it's one of the major foundations of Philosophy but you'd not know that.
We live in a multidimensional universe. This is one of my basic philosophical tenants. We experience but one tiny sliver of reality. A reality, as Einstein would have us believe, that exists within a landscape of realized possibilities – but not necessarily a realized possibility for you. Or for me, or for any one of the 7billion people or so existing on earth. So yes, it is but perhaps not in our experience. So, something can and cannot be.
What gnu babble you do speak. It doesn't matter how many dimensions we live in(it's three by the way) Logic applies to all of them and in none of them can something be and not be.
Again, we are not our bodies. We are not our intellectual functions. We are ultimately – pure consciousness.
Kind-of basic stuff. Plus, philosophically, there is no external in our external reality. EVERYTHING is within us.
After revisiting my response above I realize that unless an individual enters into a state of deep philosophical understanding you cannot realize that we are nothing but pure consciousness and everything is within us. There is no real way that I think you will be able to understand. This is a deep philosophical realisation.
No, it's a bunch of gnu nonsense based upon a mish-mash of new-age wishful thinking, half-arsed eastern mysticism and freudian psycho-babble and a lost theism. Idealism has been a position in Philosophy but if what you say is true then all your other posts show how this is not an actual belief of yours as apparently you can do nothing to change this reality that is not external even tho' it is all internal!?
This is just a rephrasing of your tightly held beliefs #3 & #4.
And your reply confirms my belief.
You ARE repeating yourself.
I repeat, your reply confirms my belief.
I think you are tripping yourself up with grammar that touches upon being a double negative or just a flat-out play upon words. Think about this and then revisit some of my deep philosophical responses to your earlier questions within this list of seven.
You have given no 'deep philosophical responses'. Your mistake is that you fail to understand the relationship between words, thoughts, Logic and reality. As such you believe contradictions to be true and tautologies to be false which goes a long way in explaining you.
* Life Pro Tip: Try to focus your attention within. Don't try immediately to put words to your state. Just be.
And yet this has got you nowhere but empty, 'depressed' and unconscious on the locker-room floor?

Thanks to NLP I can produce a state where there is no internal voice, can you?
Hope this thread will help you focus and feel better about yourself in the future! [/size]
You're mistaken, I do not feel bad about myself but it's exactly this nasty type of psychological manipulation that marks you out for what you are, a prize gnu indeed. Thank goodness you're an incompetent one.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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I admit, philosophy can be cold. You may even see my responses as a form of tough love.


I wish I could sugar-coat my responses for you - but that would just compromise the integrity of my philosophical viewpoints. I CAN'T do that.


I'm sorry if I hurt you. That was not my intent.

I did not expect you to be able to relate to the deep philosophical viewpoints that I hold. *Your views are best for you - THAT is a basic esoteric philosophical viewpoint.


Good luck to you.

Again, didn't mean to hurt you.
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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.I admit, philosophy can be cold. You may even see my responses as a form of tough love.
I don't see them as that at all, I see them as the confused ramblings of someone who has not bothered to read any philosophy other than that which supports his need to find a replacement for his lost faith.
I wish I could sugar-coat my responses for you - but that would just compromise the integrity of my philosophical viewpoints. I CAN'T do that.
You said you would challenge my beliefs. So far you've failed as your responses have not addressed them. Now you're just plying your psycho-babble trade to avoid your lack of philosophical point.
I'm sorry if I hurt you. That was not my intent.
You delude yourself.
I did not expect you to be able to relate to the deep philosophical viewpoints that I hold. *Your views are best for you - THAT is a basic esoteric philosophical viewpoint.
If your viewpoints were deeply held then you'd not be in the state you describe or maybe you would as your viewpoints are contradictory and confused.
Good luck to you.
Don't need it. As I take with equanimity what the world doles out.
Again, didn't mean to hurt you. [/size]
You haven't. Once again you delude yourself.

So once again, tell me the challenge you offer to my strongly held belief that 'I am'?

Tell me the challenge you offer to my strongly held belief that there is another English speaker?

Tell me the challenge you offer to my strongly held belief that something cannot be and not be?

Tell me the challenge you offer to my strongly held belief that I am a body with senses in an external world?

Tell me the challenge you offer to my strongly held belief that there are phenomena?

Tell me the challenge you offer to my strongly held belief that there is something?

Tell me the challenge you offer to my strongly held belief that nothing cannot be?
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Look, I philosophically challenged ALL your opinions.

I mean, I really don't expect to turn you around. I don't even want to.


Your beliefs are your beliefs. Period.


I challenged you. I'm not here to change you.


I do appreciate you participating
within this important philosophical thread.


Good day.




.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.




1. I am.

One of the major foundations of basic philosophy is the question, Who Am I?
Which, obviously is direct opposite of I am.
You choose whatever vantage point you wish. Good luck my friend & I support you in whatever decision life gives you at this moment.
Wow - what a challenge!!



2. There is another English speaker.


Not sure how this can be a major belief or opinion but to rebut it is quite simple. There are about 7billion humans populating earth right now. Philosophically, you must try to imagine that there are other languages. MANY other languages and even more dialects. Please believe me when I say millions of people DO NOT speak English. So, in fact, there is not another English speaker.
Jesus! Do you speak English Bill?



3. Something cannot be and not be.

To be or NOT to be? - That was a question.
Again, a tad bit sophomoric but I will humor your request.
We live in a multidimensional universe. This is one of my basic philosophical tenants. We experience but one tiny sliver of reality. A reality, as Einstein would have us believe, that exists within a landscape of realized possibilities – but not necessarily a realized possibility for you. Or for me, or for any one of the 7billion people or so existing on earth. So yes, it is but perhaps not in our experience. So, something can and cannot be.

I don't think responding further to this post is worthwhile


4. I am a body with senses in an external world.

Again, we are not our bodies. We are not our intellectual functions. We are ultimately – pure consciousness.
Kind-of basic stuff. Plus, philosophically, there is no external in our external reality. EVERYTHING is within us.
After revisiting my response above I realize that unless an individual enters into a state of deep philosophical understanding you cannot realize that we are nothing but pure consciousness and everything is within us. There is no real way that I think you will be able to understand. This is a deep philosophical realization.



5. There are phenomena.

This is just a rephrasing of your tightly held beliefs #3 & #4.



6. There is something.

You ARE repeating yourself.



7. Nothing cannot be.

I think you are tripping yourself up with grammar that touches upon being a double negative or just a flat-out play upon words. Think about this and then revisit some of my deep philosophical responses to your earlier questions within this list of seven.



* Life Pro Tip: Try to focus your attention within. Don't try immediately to put words to your state. Just be.



Hope this thread will help you focus and feel better about yourself in the future!








.
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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.Look, I philosophically challenged ALL your opinions.
Not really but where you attempted to I responded and that's when you turned to your nasty psycho-babble.
I mean, I really don't expect to turn you around. I don't even want to.
Which is why you are not a philosopher.
Your beliefs are your beliefs. Period.
Which is exactly why you are not a philosopher.

However, you put the challenge up there and I'm still awaiting the challenge, as as someone who considers themselves of a philosophical bent I will change my philosophical beliefs if the challenge has philosophical merit. Hence you are currently hearing those beliefs that, so far, I have found unassailable.
I challenged you. I'm not here to change you.
A pointless challenge then and why you should not call yourself a philosopher.
I do appreciate you participating within this important philosophical thread.
Nothing of philosophical import here at all. Just a blustering gnu.
Good day.[/size].
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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The responses from both of you make me feel much better about my replys.



Look, you offered-up to me YOUR STRONGEST, MOST DEEPLY HELD BELIEFS. It would be wrong of you to change anything about your established beliefs or opinions just upon what I said. - JUST because I philosophically challenged them.


The're yours. HOLD ONTO them.


Secondly, I am almost to the point of embarrassment with the respect & confidence you bestow upon me.

Look, I'm just another member here.


No need to be afraid of me...


I know I must have deeply challenged what you hold onto to be true.


That is obvious from your withdrawal and feeble attempts at lashing out.


Have a good night...and again, I sincerely apologize for getting too real with your convictions.







.
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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.



The responses from both of you make me feel much better about my replays.
Of course they do because you ignore them as you have NPD so all is grist to your delusion.
Look, you offered-up to me YOUR STRONGEST, MOST DEEPLY HELD BELIEFS. It would be wrong of you to change anything about your established beliefs or opinions just upon what I said. - JUST because I philosophically challenged them.
Only in your delusions.
The're yours. HOLD ONTO them.
This is why you are not a philosopher.
Secondly, I am almost to the point of embarrassment with the respect & confidence you bestow upon me.
NPD
Look, I'm just another member here.
You don't think so tho' do you. But be reassured you are just another member here and a gnu to boot.
No need to be afraid of me...
Nothing to fear, only pity.
I know I must have deeply challenged what you hold onto to be true.
Philosophically you've challenged nothing so far.
That is obvious from your withdrawal and feeble attempts at lashing out.
Nah! That was my response to your usual psycho-babble when faced with responses to your thoughts.
Have a good night...and again, I sincerely apologize for getting too real with your convictions.[/size]
You live in a world of delusion. Time to turn that computer of for a good long-while Bill and sort-out your issues as trawling the interweeb is not helping them, in fact it's exacerbating them.

Seek professional help.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Look, you gave us your most strongly held belief.

I sincerely appreciate you doing that.


I get it...It's not that easy to do.


But to be fare, I told you up-front I was going to challenge, philosophically challenge, your most strongly held belief/opinion.


And I did. I was brutally honest in doing so.


And again, I understand, that is hard to take.


PLEASE DON'T TAKE THAT PERSONALLY.


If I embarrassed any of you I am sorry.



Perhaps this deeply philosophical thread was just too real for this forum.



But that's not my fault. That is the way I am.

Anyone that has been around here should already know that about me.


Once again, I appreciate all participating members who bared their soul here.


No one said philosophy, - REAL philosophy, is easy!







.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.



The responses from both of you make me feel much better about my replys.



Look, you offered-up to me YOUR STRONGEST, MOST DEEPLY HELD BELIEFS. It would be wrong of you to change anything about your established beliefs or opinions just upon what I said. - JUST because I philosophically challenged them.


The're yours. HOLD ONTO them.


Secondly, I am almost to the point of embarrassment with the respect & confidence you bestow upon me.

Look, I'm just another member here.


No need to be afraid of me...


I know I must have deeply challenged what you hold onto to be true.


That is obvious from your withdrawal and feeble attempts at lashing out.


Have a good night...and again, I sincerely apologize for getting too real with your convictions.







.
Here's a belief.
I believe that you are probably an alcoholic. You hit the juice and then logon.
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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
Look, you gave us your most strongly held belief.

I sincerely appreciate you doing that.

I get it...It's not that easy to do.
Its a piece of piss if you've studied philosophy and found an interest in it.
But to be fare, I told you up-front I was going to challenge, philosophically challenge, your most strongly held belief/opinion.

And I did. I was brutally honest in doing so.
But you haven't? You just stated your beliefs and offered no explanations of why mine are wrong and yours right. Now given you think you don't have a body with senses in an external world, that something can both be and not be, that you don't speak English, that nothing is a thing, that there are no phenomena, that there isn't something and that you don't exist, you'll have to pardon me if I think your challenges a touch weak. Not least because at least one of those is a logical contradiction and the rest are pretty much self-contradictory every time you reply.
And again, I understand, that is hard to take.
Do you, why do you think this?
PLEASE DON'T TAKE THAT PERSONALLY.
I don't, I take it as an affront to Philosophy.
If I embarrassed any of you I am sorry.
Spare your blushes as you haven't.
Perhaps this deeply philosophical thread was just too real for this forum.
Still waiting to hear anything deeply philosophical?
But that's not my fault. That is the way I am.
Always ready to shift the blame eh!

'I am' is it now?
Anyone that has been around here should already know that about me.
That's for sure but just in case there are any noobs, Bill is a gnu with npd.
Once again, I appreciate all participating members who bared their soul here.
You're on the wrong site, you need a psychoanalytic forum not a philosophical one.
No one said philosophy, - REAL philosophy, is easy![/size]
And yet you find no solace from it? So you are doing it wrong or at least Boethius thought so.

You keep mistaking psychoanalysis with philosophy, seek professional help for what ails you or return to faith.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Give Me Your Strongest Held Belief or Opinion ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Look, I respect your judgement, your opinions and your beliefs.

I'm not here to change those beliefs/opinions or to question your judgement.


I stated, rather clearly, I will philosophically CONFRONT your beliefs.


That ability to logically & philosophically confront ALL that we know as true - that, THAT is one of the true beauty's of REAL philosophy!


Does that act ruffle feathers? - YES!

Does that force individuals, at times, to confront themselves? - ABSOLUTELY!


Why do you think REAL philosophers such as myself have been persecuted throughout history? - even put to death!



It is obvious to me that this thread is just too hot to handle for some members here.


That's NOT a knock on you or anyone.


That's just the way it is...




Let's let this thread cool down a little bit. I think some of you have gotten a bit too emotional.


And I can't retrace my steps. I can't and I won't take back the philosophical truths that I have expounded!


Now. NO APOLOGIES! - I warned you - this thread will cause you to confront you most deeply held beliefs and opinions.


...and it did.





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