Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:01 pmYou don't condemn anything, it seems. You just take complete moral relativism for how things are. So it has a lot to do with your self-descriptive work above.
This, in my view, is simply how the objectivist mind of a Christian fanatic works. His own moral convictions revolve around what he insists the Christian God condemns. WWJD. Or, perhaps, it is the Christian God's moral convictions that revolve around what IC condemns.
The Christian God deems abortion to be a Sin. And, on Judgment Day, those who either perform or have one will learn their fate.
Unless, perhaps, it's more complicated than that:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/25/us/abort ... index.html
As for what I condemn, over and over and over again I note that my point here focuses less on what each of us as individuals condemns and more on how moral and political convictions themselves revolve existentially around the points I raise in the OPs here:
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=176529
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=194382
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 5&t=185296
Then I invite objectivists of IC's ilk to note how this is
not applicable to them. Given particular contexts like the abortion wars.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:58 pm So Islamists who own slaves and rape children...okay by you, because they believe they're in the one truth path?
...what's that next to the Christian God creating "...an endless procession of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions and tornadoes and hurricanes and great floods and great droughts and great fires and deadly viral and bacterial plagues and miscarriages and hundreds and hundreds of medical and mental afflictions and extinction events...making life on Earth a living hell for countless millions of men, women and children down through the ages."
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:58 pm Nobody says God "creates" these things. Well, animists do, maybe...they have "gods" that "create" all sorts of phenomena, from crops growing to lightning bolts. But no Christian thinks that's what these things mean.
You need to update your theology.
Let's go to the Bible:
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
The heavens that from time to time send asteroids and comets our way bringing about "extinction events". And the Earth which was hard-wired by God to bring about that "endless procession" above.
And who was it other than God that created human biology
with its countless terrible medical afflictions that make life a living hell [eventually] for all of us.
Likewise, this: "Miscarriage is generally defined as the loss of a pregnancy before viability. An estimated 23 million miscarriages occur every year worldwide, translating to 44 pregnancy losses each minute." National Library of Medicine
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:58 pm And as you point out:
...most won't blame God.
Come on, Mr. Snippet, as per usual, you leave out the rest of it:
"They'll convince themselves it's all just a part of God's plan. After all, what's the alternative? No God and the miscarriage "just happened"...just another manifestation of the brute facticity that is the human condition in a No God world."
I don't believe in the existence of God. Your God or any other one. Though, sure, I want to believe in Him. And for all of the reasons I've noted above and elsewhere.
And, yes, He may well exist.
After all, the thing about believing in God, of course, is that it gives you someone or something
to go back to. These terrible natural disasters and medical afflictions don't "just happen" in an essentially meaningless and purposeless world...they are a part of God's plan, a part of His "mysterious ways" that we are simply not privy to "here and now".
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:58 pm Christian theology says we live in a broken, disrupted world, wherein mankind has rejected God. Natural disasters are not God getting angry, nor God punishing people, nor any such simplistic idea as that. It's a natural product of our disjuncture from the Source of life, health and goodness, which we human beings have ourselves caused.
Ah, a necessary adjunct of Original Sin. All the rest of us still being punished for something we didn't even do ourselves. Use
that to explain away these terrible conditions:
https://www.onhealth.com/content/1/chil ... _sick_kids
https://sph.umich.edu/pursuit/2020posts ... llosa.html
https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/chi ... conditions
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:58 pm You won't like that: but the alternative is worse. It's called "death," and it's the inevitable outcome of living creatures having rejected God. Unplug yourself from the source of life, and you'll run down fast.
Seen this way, you realize that being allowed a chance to live, and to choose differently, even in an imperfect world, is vastly preferable to what we really have coming to us.
Right. Then back to the fact that your Christian dogma is just one of many One True Paths to immortality and salvation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions
But you, what, swear to God that your path really, reallly, really
is the One
True Path?
Need proof, anyone?
Go here:
https://youtu.be/hHXXacBAm2A
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... SjDNeMaRoX
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:58 pm So what do you want? Do you want to rail against God and die? Or do you want something better?
Haven't I made it abundantly clear what I want? I want to believe in the existence of a loving, just and merciful God who will grant me immortality and salvation on the other side of the grave.
But in order to believe in a God, the God, my God, I need others to take Him here:
1] a demonstrable proof of the existence of your God or religious/spiritual path
2] addressing the fact that down through the ages hundreds of Gods and religious/spiritual paths to immortality and salvation were/are championed...but only one of which [if any] can be the true path. So why yours?
3] addressing the profoundly problematic role that dasein plays in any particular individual's belief in Gods and religious/spiritual faiths
4] the questions that revolve around theodicy and your own particular God or religious/spiritual path
Which, of course, Mr. Snippet, you will swear to God that you already
have!
That, I suspect, is just another component of your own "condition". I mean, it's got to
be a "condition", right? What other possible explanation can there be for arguments like yours?