Beyond Good and Evil

[chaz wyman]

Busmans Prayer


Our Farnham,[1] who art in Hendon
Harrow be Thy name.[2]
Thy Kingston come; thy Wimbledon,
In Erith as it is in Hendon.
Give us this day our daily Brent [3]
And forgive us our Westminster[4]
As we forgive those who Westminster against us.[5]
And lead us not into Thames Ditton[6]
But deliver us from Yeovil.[7]
For Thine is the Kingston, the Purley and the Crawley,[8]
For Esher and Esher.[9]
Crouch End.

Ian Dury


For the hard of reading.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWKcCZ1S ... re=related

and for the hard of thinking...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR4PQ30VkBk

This is the sort of indoctrination upon which all belief systems rely, including Godfrey's.

Still it accounts for that people dont know anymore what the Lords prayer was ment to. It was to end the endless and long prayers that in the end ment nothing, for people didnt know what they there praying. The lords prayer gave a short version what to ask and to hope and that was converted by time and tradition to new emptyness.

I am grateful for that considered response from the hard of thinking.

[Walgekaaren]

I've been thinking. Why is it that we have so many labels about gender. That there is an age issue about knoledge, what one can now or not. Or what values one can have atall without explaining why.... Is the picture from the inside the same as the picture from the outside.

For instance if a man and a woman argue about marriage, and the one is cynical from the outside, coas she has seen so many divorsed marriages; and maltreatments, and the other is empathical about the topic from the insides of his experience in his marriage. Then they both would be right and they both would be wrong at the same time.

They would be right about they feelings and knoledge but wrong in understanding what is outside of them.

Good is always what I do thus Evil must be what the other does. In estonian language we have a word game - I dont know where it comes, but it explains alot in the language and atitudes.
The adequate translations for Righteous and wicked in estonian are 'õige' ja 'õel' but 'õel' may also meen that a sister has something like the frase 'õel on õun' means 'the sister has an apple'
if you change the wording to 'õun on õel' then the frase would mean 'the apple is wicked'

Then we have the corelation about brotherhood and sisterhood. In estonian 'vendlus' and 'õelus' (offcourse you could say also 'õdelus' what would have no indication to wickedness, but that misses the point especially that this word is not used in common-talk) 'Õelus' also means wickedness or even malice

Thus there are knoledges in our midst what are strong and male thus right and then there are other knoledges what are weak and female what you call grannys talk or oldmans tale

Should there be a leveling that all should be equal or is that leveling by itself evil? - Allowing to do to others as they did. Does it make it right then we pay the depts of our ancestors by punishing theyr guilts and blames like the paraphrase: The fathers ate sour grapes, but the sons had weak tooth!"

Wouldnt it be far more better, if we dismantel the whole issue and step outside of gender-thinking and labeling there atitudes are based on who the talker is and not what he or she has to say...

The second part about labeling is age. We have entered a time there teachers dont have to be oldmen or -women, but mere children. I dont want to drop into indigo or cristalchildren topics for this is another kind of labeling saying: one is better than the other and you cannot change it through effort but have to learn to live with it.

Like in the movie "Matrix" the scene there Neo is talking to a child who says to him: "Dont try to bend the spoon, for that would be impossible. Rather try to feel the truth. - There is no spoon." For we are what bend in our words and attitudes and not the others.

In my oppinion, and you may always address it, if people start using frases: "You dont understand, because you're too young; are rich; are male/female etc." then by doing so, they admit, that they arent confortable with theyr situation and argument they are having.

I have seen wise men act like children and infants act like spokesmen of grate virtue. - I have even witnessed through a dog-owner that a dog protects a cat, that female dog has issues about her partners and allows only one male dog to have sex with her. (Remember: I dont believe that animals have a soul like men do) Isnt that the indication of true good and life a soul? Something that is more than we witness in our normal lives.

How on earth do we say then: "You can be cynical about this topic if you are of age!" or "You cannot comprehend what a woman feals for you cannot get pregnant."?

I also cannot drive a car for I would fall into transe and cause a serious accident. I am a terrible pedestrian. I tend to meditate all the time, and I have survived many occasions there I would just walk infront of a car or truck just because I meditate about peace on earth or world hunger problem or stuff like that... Still I know what it feels or meens to be a driver. If the above was right, I would first have to learn how to drive to have a claim of that knoledge. But that would be bullshit. How did Daimler; Benz and Ford have theyr knoledge about driving then there was nothing to drive? - Atleast not in the sence of a car...

The driver has power of something. He can go from point A to point B without using the public transportation services. He controlls the vehicle tetermining when and how he shall travel. By having a car and driving it, he is in somewhat better than the pedestrian who doesnt have it. In a way the cardriver/owner is like the smith or herbalist of old times. For he got stuff

But then we think back at the starting of the car-world, the only drivers there mere workers or servants of rich people. Driving a car was regarded as brute and not fitting for the lords and ladys. - Especially for the ladys - like horsebackriding ages earlier. Because cars were expensive and limited, only rich people could afford em and the car drivers who could drive them correctly there even more limited. Thus the lords didnt drive but let themselves to be driven- and the backseat was more eligible than the frontseat - nowadays its the oposite.

We dont even have true nobility anymore... We have lots of cell-phones; cars; opportunities to learn how to use these etc. But in that knowing-and-having-it-all we lost our freedom to choose. We are lost in issues and labels what we didnt have then we were restricted to dull simple lives. Having it all made us insatiable and grumpy like spoiled children or old men with artrites.

We must have something to be good otherwise we arent for the indignation is in the labels not in us. Thus disband labels and you are free again...

[bobevenson]

Again, there is nothing beyond good and evil (as discussed in "The Ouzo Prophecy" at http://church-of-ouzo.com/pdf/ouzo-prophecy.pdf).

[Arising_uk]

Because he doesnt mean it by heart but by tradition like the pharisees who are now mocked for being ignorant and cruel but the christians arent any better. We have made the Lords prayer into a tradition like to the budhist the turning of the prayer-wheel counts for a thousand prayers without praying them. That is too cheep for me. Try reciting the Lords prayer a 100 times in a row and you know what I mean. - You simply cannot do it by heart for wery long, for you wear off and drose from the first cheerful effort and love into disgust and sleepiness. Your mind starts to wander around and it gets really hard to think the meaning of words you are chanting. So you get mad at yourself and filled with guilt and try even harder untill you brake under the exhaustion. - And finally loose your faith.

Or you just avoid such endevours and hold on your faith...

Who's made it into such a tradition? A church? If so the Bible says not to pray in church. Why on earth would I wish to say it a 100 times but I'm not surprised one would nod off.

How hard a prayer is it? Just before bedtime and it appears fairly simple if you are a christian.

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. - Acknowledging that one that you call 'God'.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. - Acknowledging that if one will follow what one believes is its will upon the earth, the earth will become heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread. - Acknowledging the sustenance that it provides.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. - Asking for forgiveness and forgiving others.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: - Avoid doing wrong.
For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. - Acknowledging that one that you call 'God'.

[Walgekaaren]

Because he doesnt mean it by heart but by tradition like the pharisees who are now mocked for being ignorant and cruel but the christians arent any better. We have made the Lords prayer into a tradition like to the budhist the turning of the prayer-wheel counts for a thousand prayers without praying them. That is too cheep for me. Try reciting the Lords prayer a 100 times in a row and you know what I mean. - You simply cannot do it by heart for wery long, for you wear off and drose from the first cheerful effort and love into disgust and sleepiness. Your mind starts to wander around and it gets really hard to think the meaning of words you are chanting. So you get mad at yourself and filled with guilt and try even harder untill you brake under the exhaustion. - And finally loose your faith.

Or you just avoid such endevours and hold on your faith...

Who's made it into such a tradition? A church? If so the Bible says not to pray in church. Why on earth would I wish to say it a 100 times but I'm not surprised one would nod off.

How hard a prayer is it? Just before bedtime and it appears fairly simple if you are a christian.

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. - Acknowledging that one that you call 'God'.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. - Acknowledging that if one will follow what one believes is its will upon the earth, the earth will become heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread. - Acknowledging the sustenance that it provides.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. - Asking for forgiveness and forgiving others.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: - Avoid doing wrong.
For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. - Acknowledging that one that you call 'God'.

That is indeed correct, for a true Christian there is no problem saying the Lords prayer before bedtime. - And thinking it right. But as Paul pointed out in his letters "For I dont like what I do, for I do what I hate and what I want I dont do."

We may know what is right, we may actually know that Jesus is the Lord and Saviour and still do evil and wrong. Many who are in jail are truly religious. If you have viewed the scripture correctly, and open-mindedly, you will notice a strange occurance towards how God chooses his men. Moses was a murderer; Abraham a liar for he claimed his wife to be his sister to avoid being killed because his wife was so pretty in the eyes of egiptians. Gilead was a coward, Jefta offered his own daughter as offering to God, Jacob was a crook who stole the first-born right, Peter denied Christ three times, the Sebedee brothers asked for dominion in the Lords kingdom and fire from heaven towards Samaria, then they didnt want to offer shelter to Jesus.
David killed Uria because of his wife with whom he had in the end Solomon - the wisest man on earth, who built the temple his father as a warrior wasnt allowed to build, but who lost the kingdom because knoledge made him too proud and selfish he forgat God.

I didnt want to say that you cant use the Lords prayer, but you should use it with thoughtfull mind and consideration. What would you think of a boy who is texting you every day without saying anything new compared to a boy who really talks to your heart. God wants to know us not our words and correct prayer. He allready knows that we can pray.