Faith and reason

[bahman]

Faith and reason are mutually exclusive as faith becomes meaningless if there is a reason for God. God however said in Hebrews 11:6: "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." This means that there is no reason for the existence of God.

So, 'your reason' that there is, supposedly, no reason for the existence of God, is based off of, or based upon, what God, Itself, said, correct?

Yes, you got the point.

[bahman]

Faith and reason are mutually exclusive as faith becomes meaningless if there is a reason for God. God however said in Hebrews 11:6: "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." This means that there is no reason for the existence of God.

What a load of crap. Talk about non sequitur(s).

Faith and reason go hand in hand. God asks for faith for its existence to be revealed such that one no longer remains with faith only. I know God exists, and I know there must be a reason for its existence. Neither excludes the other.

No, faith and reason do not go hand in hand. They refer to two different things, one of them is faith, strong belief, and another reason, which has nothing to do with the faith. They are mutually exclusive. If the only way to know God is through faith, as God said, then there couldn't be a reason for the existence of God. If you have a strong reason for the existence of God then faith becomes meaningless.

[bahman]

Faith and reason are mutually exclusive as faith becomes meaningless if there is a reason for God. God however said in Hebrews 11:6: "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." This means that there is no reason for the existence of God.

Faith and reason are inversely proportional;

Faith...- 0.1%..to 100%
Reason.- 100% to O.1%

What is mutually exclusive is empiricism and theism.
Both has elements of faith and reason in different degrees.

God can be believed both by 100% faith or 100% reason, or in combination, but the resultant God cannot be empirically real to the extent of answering prayers, create the universe or whatever humans think God is.

You either have a reason for God or you don't. So it is binary. The same applies to faith. You either have faith in a specific God or you don't.

[bahman]

Faith and reason are mutually exclusive as faith becomes meaningless if there is a reason for God. God however said in Hebrews 11:6: "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." This means that there is no reason for the existence of God.

If that sentence you quoted is correct. For example, no Hindu needs to care about that sentence.

True. Hindus don't believe in God. They believe in other sorts of things they have no proof of.

How are you defining faith?

Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.

Don't we all assume things?

What do you mean?

[Age]

What a load of crap. Talk about non sequitur(s).

Faith and reason go hand in hand. God asks for faith for its existence to be revealed such that one no longer remains with faith only. I know God exists, and I know there must be a reason for its existence. Neither excludes the other.

Do you know what the reason is for God's existence?

If no, then just let me know, and then I will inform you.

I don't know, please tell me Age.

To bear witness to the beauty in Creation.

[attofishpi]

Faith and reason are mutually exclusive as faith becomes meaningless if there is a reason for God. God however said in Hebrews 11:6: "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." This means that there is no reason for the existence of God.

What a load of crap. Talk about non sequitur(s).

Faith and reason go hand in hand. God asks for faith for its existence to be revealed such that one no longer remains with faith only. I know God exists, and I know there must be a reason for its existence. Neither excludes the other.

No, faith and reason do not go hand in hand. They refer to two different things, one of them is faith, strong belief, and another reason, which has nothing to do with the faith. They are mutually exclusive. If the only way to know God is through faith, as God said, then there couldn't be a reason for the existence of God. If you have a strong reason for the existence of God then faith becomes meaningless.

Is English your second language?

See that red bit? Please explain how knowing God via first having faith then precludes the existence of God.

[promethean75]

"To bear witness to the beauty in Creation."

Iambiguous, please post the Wikipedia list of natural disasters, diseases and extinction events for the gentleman, if u will. Thank u.

[Age]

Faith and reason are mutually exclusive as faith becomes meaningless if there is a reason for God. God however said in Hebrews 11:6: "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." This means that there is no reason for the existence of God.

So, 'your reason' that there is, supposedly, no reason for the existence of God, is based off of, or based upon, what God, Itself, said, correct?

Yes, you got the point.

But did you get the self-refuting contradiction?

[Age]

"To bear witness to the beauty in Creation."

Iambiguous, please post the Wikipedia list of natural disasters, diseases and extinction events for the gentleman, if u will. Thank u.

And, it was because of these so-called 'disasters', to some only, why you human beings evolved into Creation and/or evolved into being Created.

Also "promethean75', if you would like to have a Truly full, Honest, and OPEN discussion here, then please let 'us' continue.

[bahman]

What a load of crap. Talk about non sequitur(s).

Faith and reason go hand in hand. God asks for faith for its existence to be revealed such that one no longer remains with faith only. I know God exists, and I know there must be a reason for its existence. Neither excludes the other.

No, faith and reason do not go hand in hand. They refer to two different things, one of them is faith, strong belief, and another reason, which has nothing to do with the faith. They are mutually exclusive. If the only way to know God is through faith, as God said, then there couldn't be a reason for the existence of God. If you have a strong reason for the existence of God then faith becomes meaningless.

Is English your second language?

Yes.

See that red bit? Please explain how knowing God via first having faith then precludes the existence of God.

I didn't say that having faith precludes the existence of God. I said that there couldn't be a reason for the existence of God.

[bahman]

So, 'your reason' that there is, supposedly, no reason for the existence of God, is based off of, or based upon, what God, Itself, said, correct?

Yes, you got the point.

But did you get the self-refuting contradiction?

No, there is no contradiction in what I said.

[Age]

Yes, you got the point.

But did you get the self-refuting contradiction?

No, there is no contradiction in what I said.

you said and wrote, ' God however said in Hebrews 11:6 ...:, and then claimed, ' This means that there is no reason for the existence of God'.

Now if you cannot recognize and see that this here is a straight out self-refuting contradiction, then okay.

But absolutely everyone else here can.

[bahman]

But did you get the self-refuting contradiction?

No, there is no contradiction in what I said.

you said and wrote, ' God however said in Hebrews 11:6 ...:, and then claimed, ' This means that there is no reason for the existence of God'.

Now if you cannot recognize and see that this here is a straight out self-refuting contradiction, then okay.

But absolutely everyone else here can.

I am saying again that there is no contradiction here. If the only way to know God is through faith then there cannot be any reason for the existence of God.

[Iwannaplato]

True. Hindus don't believe in God. They believe in other sorts of things they have no proof of.

We all believe in things we don't have proof of. You're also incorrect: many Hindus believe in God. Yes, some have a more mystic view that is hard to compare to the other monotheisms, but many HIndus believe in God and/or Gods.
Further my point was you said that the quote from the Bible meant

This means that there is no reason for the existence of God.

I don't know why a quote from the Bible can demonstrate there is no reason for the existence of God, and it seems an odd appeal to authority from what seems to be an atheist.

And, of course, those theists who don't think the Bible or the Torah are the word of God has no reason to just accept an appeal to Biblical authority.

How are you defining faith?

Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.

So, only religious faith, then.

Don't we all assume things?

What do you mean?
[/quote]
Don't we all assume things like memory is to some degree correct, for example?
You can't really prove this since any proof will depend on memory.
There are other assumptions we all make.
Then there are individual assumptions.
We don't have time to go around proving everything, for example, even if we had the means.

[bahman]

True. Hindus don't believe in God. They believe in other sorts of things they have no proof of.

We all believe in things we don't have proof of. You're also incorrect: many Hindus believe in God. Yes, some have a more mystic view that is hard to compare to the other monotheisms, but many HIndus believe in God and/or Gods.

I read about Hinduism a long time ago. My memory must be rusty.

Further my point was you said that the quote from the Bible meant

This means that there is no reason for the existence of God.

I don't know why a quote from the Bible can demonstrate there is no reason for the existence of God, and it seems an odd appeal to authority from what seems to be an atheist.

Well, God is omniscient so He should know if there is proof for his existence or not. As I said, if there is proof of the existence of God, then faith becomes meaningless. On the other hand, God said that He accepts people just through faith. Therefore there should not be any reason for the existence of God.

And, of course, those theists who don't think the Bible or the Torah are the word of God has no reason to just accept an appeal to Biblical authority.

True.

How are you defining faith?

Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.

So, only religious faith, then.

Yes.

What do you mean?

Don't we all assume things like memory is to some degree correct, for example?
You can't really prove this since any proof will depend on memory.
There are other assumptions we all make.
Then there are individual assumptions.
We don't have time to go around proving everything, for example, even if we had the means.

I am currently studying several proofs of the existence of God. Some of the proofs are not based on assumptions. Some of them are very hard to counter.