Trump

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Trump

Post by Immanuel Can »

Walker wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:55 am - In principle, the goal of The Left is not so much to keep Trump away. The goal is chaos and corruption as a principle of change. Chaos and corruption of systems has even been culturally romanticized in film, and film is a key into the minds of many these days.
They get it from Hegelian "dialectics," through Karl Marx. They believe that History (capital "H," like it was a god) is always held back by the status quo -- no matter what the status quo is -- and in order to "progress," History must be freed up from its shackles, through dialectical conflict. Chaos causes conflict, so chaos is good, and order is repressive. That's what Neo-Marxists think.

But the power brokers have a different play, as you point out: for them, chaos is the opportunity to seize power, increase tyranny and bilk the masses. So long as the chaos doesn't affect their own position, they're delighted to see all opposition in disarray, all systems breaking down, and all order destroyed -- since it then rationalizes their own further power-grab.

That's why the Left is so squarely behind all the chaos-causers. It's not because the Left loves freedom, or wants to advocate for the oppressed. And you can see that, because the minute the chaos stops, the Left has no interest in helping the poor and oppressed. It's the chaos they love. The Neo-Marxists love it because it is the prerequisite to their wanted utopia...the establishment tyrants love it because it offers them a chance to establish a New Order. Just as the Third Reich arrived on the coattails of Weimar disorder, so too Stalinism arrived on the coattails of the bolsheviks, and Castro arrived after the Cuban Revolution, and Maoism after the Chinese one...it's the same pattern, every time: the promise of freedom, then the establishment of ever-tighter tyranny on the back of a period of induced chaos.

But we don't learn from history, so we keep making the same mistakes.

The Left wins when it trumpets freedom and promotes chaos. The conservatives (not radical Right), have to shore up the social order, so are easy targets for being accused of exactly what the Left is totally so very keen on doing: servicing a tyrannical order.

So in the US, the conservatives have to keep believing in the voting system, and keep bowing to whatever comes out of it: and the Left is then able to tamper with it unchallenged, because public confidence in the voting process serves their end -- any objection to the process is immediately called "election denial" and "conspiracy theory" and "anti-democratic." And the conservatives have to fall back into line, because they need the voting process to continue, and to have integrity, because it's the only way a conservative or classical liberal political program can go forward. But the Left gets to play as dirty as it likes.

So when Trump was in office, the Left called it a phony election, and him an impending dictator, and could even call publicly for "mostly-peaceful" protests at will. But when Trump was eliminated through vote-tampering, they could pose as the defenders of democracy and the voting process, and repeat (in a Greta Thunberg voice) "How dare you! You have stolen our election confidence!"

So now it comes down to this: if the election process is, as in the last election, infinitely corruptible by the Left, then the conservatives, centrists and classical liberals are all dead, as is the democratic process. There will no longer be any possibility of free and open elections in the US, but only the prospect of an indefinite number of "cooked" ones. But if they get Trump out, you can be sure that any such outcome will be trumpeted from the Capitol as "a triumph of democracy," if it happens. And if all the ruses, strategems and tricks the Left is currently pulling pre-nomination and pre-election should not succeed, and if Trump should somehow persevere and win, it will be deplored as certain evidence of the failure of democracy.

What irony. The pre-election erasure of a candidate is "democracy," in the US now. :shock:
promethean75
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Re: Trump

Post by promethean75 »

What the shit? I thought Karl was a historical materialist, not a Hegelian dialectical materialist who believes history is a 'rational' teleo-logical process! Fuck i thought all Karl was shootin for was a proletarian controlled economy and government. That fuckin liar.

Shew. Good thing i read IC instead of Marx. I'd have never known.

And yes, IC is right. There are more self acclaimed Leftists today on the pulpit, TV and in congress who even know who Hegel is than u can shake a dialectical stick at. Fuckin Hegelians are everywhere these days.
promethean75
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Re: Trump

Post by promethean75 »

Hey your boy Don T killed it in Iowa tho diddint he?

The three cornerstones of the Iowan civilization: Jesus, corn, and Donald Trump.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Trump

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

promethean75 wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:15 am Hey your boy Don T killed it in Iowa tho diddint he?

The three cornerstones of the Iowan civilization: Jesus, corn, and Donald Trump.
I was just going to ask about that. Isn't Iowa a 'Swing State'? You are a country of religious nuts anyway, so that's a moot point. And y'all love your liver-destroying corn syrup...
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Trump

Post by Immanuel Can »

promethean75 wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:10 am What the shit? I thought Karl was a historical materialist, not a Hegelian dialectical materialist who believes history is a 'rational' teleo-logical process! Fuck i thought all Karl was shootin for was a proletarian controlled economy and government. That fuckin liar.

Shew. Good thing i read IC instead of Marx. I'd have never known.

And yes, IC is right. There are more self acclaimed Leftists today on the pulpit, TV and in congress who even know who Hegel is than u can shake a dialectical stick at. Fuckin Hegelians are everywhere these days.
Marx was a disciple of Hegel. Marx even borrowed his "dialectics" straight from Hegel, but turned it into "dialectical materialism," by removing all the spooky "spirit" stuff Hegel had in it.

But you're right about one thing: most modern Marxist are almost completely philosophically ignorant on that score. They imagine Marx made that stuff up. And they trust it absolutely, and follow it blindly, even though they don't really have the faintest idea what it's all about. They think it's just a way to make government take care of them, for free, and to give them free stuff, and to "make the rich pay," and so on. The average Marxist-on-the-street seems to know almost nothing about Marx or Marxism -- let alone Hegel, or Marcuse, or Gramsci, or anybody else, for that matter.

But it would be better for us all if they did.
Walker
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Re: Trump

Post by Walker »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 5:32 pm
What irony. The pre-election erasure of a candidate is "democracy," in the US now. :shock:
“There is a reason* that we and other news organizations** have generally stopped giving an unfiltered live platform to remarks by former President Trump. It is not out of spite, it is not a decision that we relish, it is a decision that we regularly revisit, and honestly, it is not an easy decision.”
- Rachael Maddow, MSNBC Hostess
January 15, 2024

* The reason she stated for not airing Trump's victory speech is that Trump tells “untruths.” (as defined by her and her lying, Leftist Ilk.)
** CNN showed video of Trump’s victory speech but without sound because an employee was purposely babbling a voice-over as Trump spoke.
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Sculptor
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Re: Trump

Post by Sculptor »

Walker wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:24 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 5:32 pm
What irony. The pre-election erasure of a candidate is "democracy," in the US now. :shock:
“There is a reason* that we and other news organizations** have generally stopped giving an unfiltered live platform to remarks by former President Trump. It is not out of spite, it is not a decision that we relish, it is a decision that we regularly revisit, and honestly, it is not an easy decision.”
- Rachael Maddow, MSNBC Hostess
January 15, 2024

* The reason she stated for not airing Trump's victory speech is that Trump tells “untruths.” (as defined by her and her lying, Leftist Ilk.)
** CNN showed video of Trump’s victory speech but without sound because an employee was purposely babbling a voice-over as Trump spoke.
It can be quite embarrassing to read what you say.
It is a shock that in the 21stC any person can be so easily duped by a serial recidivist muiltple criminal. A fraudster and defaulter on his debits. A misogynist and racist.
Maybe these (ahem!) qualities you see in yourself and find admirable?
Why don't you try to commit the sorts of crimes he has. WIthout you being surrounded by an army of lawyers in Gucci suits you would be going down.
Walker
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Re: Trump

Post by Walker »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 3:18 am
promethean75 wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:15 am Hey your boy Don T killed it in Iowa tho diddint he?

The three cornerstones of the Iowan civilization: Jesus, corn, and Donald Trump.
I was just going to ask about that. Isn't Iowa a 'Swing State'? You are a country of religious nuts anyway, so that's a moot point. And y'all love your liver-destroying corn syrup...
They sound like deplorables.

I knew it was Hillary Clinton the whole time...! Wow, impressive to have such a distinguished woman on this forum! 8)
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Sculptor
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Re: Trump

Post by Sculptor »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 4:05 am
promethean75 wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:10 am What the shit? I thought Karl was a historical materialist, not a Hegelian dialectical materialist who believes history is a 'rational' teleo-logical process! Fuck i thought all Karl was shootin for was a proletarian controlled economy and government. That fuckin liar.

Shew. Good thing i read IC instead of Marx. I'd have never known.

And yes, IC is right. There are more self acclaimed Leftists today on the pulpit, TV and in congress who even know who Hegel is than u can shake a dialectical stick at. Fuckin Hegelians are everywhere these days.
Marx was a disciple of Hegel. Marx even borrowed his "dialectics" straight from Hegel, but turned it into "dialectical materialism," by removing all the spooky "spirit" stuff Hegel had in it.

But you're right about one thing: most modern Marxist are almost completely philosophically ignorant on that score.
But then most Christians are ignorant of what Jesus said, and of the roots and influences that led to build the Bible.
You, yourself are ignorant on many key ideas.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Trump

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:43 am
Walker wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:24 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 5:32 pm
What irony. The pre-election erasure of a candidate is "democracy," in the US now. :shock:
“There is a reason* that we and other news organizations** have generally stopped giving an unfiltered live platform to remarks by former President Trump. It is not out of spite, it is not a decision that we relish, it is a decision that we regularly revisit, and honestly, it is not an easy decision.”
- Rachael Maddow, MSNBC Hostess
January 15, 2024

* The reason she stated for not airing Trump's victory speech is that Trump tells “untruths.” (as defined by her and her lying, Leftist Ilk.)
** CNN showed video of Trump’s victory speech but without sound because an employee was purposely babbling a voice-over as Trump spoke.
It can be quite embarrassing to read what you say.
It is a shock that in the 21stC any person can be so easily duped by a serial recidivist muiltple criminal. A fraudster and defaulter on his debits. A misogynist and racist.
Maybe these (ahem!) qualities you see in yourself and find admirable?
Why don't you try to commit the sorts of crimes he has. WIthout you being surrounded by an army of lawyers in Gucci suits you would be going down.
You are deranged.

Trump for President:

Image
Walker
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Re: Trump

Post by Walker »

.







Let's make these words Giant, to follow VT's example.


Sculptor wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:43 am
It can be quite embarrassing to read what you say.

I know. The words of the Leftists that I quoted, and their news outlets, such as those I mentioned (MSNBC & CNN), are what people in other countries know about the USA ... and the Leftists that the folks in other countries believe are moronic propagandists, presenting moronic viewpoints, that the uninformed who refuse to educate themselves gobble up like corn-syrup candy and say please sir, may I have another lie to believe?

Those who swallow the absurdities of those Leftists are rather gullible, and eager. It's embarassing to behold.







.
Last edited by Walker on Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sculptor
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Re: Trump

Post by Sculptor »

Walker wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:51 am .










Sculptor wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:43 am
It can be quite embarrassing to read what you say.
I know. The words of the Leftists that I quoted, and their news outlets, such as those I mentioned (MSNBC & CNN), are what people in other countries know about the USA ... and the Leftists that the folks in other countries believe are moronic propagandists, presenting moronic viewpoints, that the uninformed who refuse to educate themselves gobble up like corn-syrup candy and say please sir, may I have another lie to believe?

Those who swallow the absurdities of those Leftists are rather gullible, and eager. It's embarassing to behold.







.
I don't care about "leftists" - that is your version of them, and your prejudice of them.
I am concerned that you voice support for a criminal.
Trump was a criminal when he was elected.
Surely you know his long list of crimes?
Or are you in denial about them?
DO you admire his criminality?
Which is it?
Walker
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Re: Trump

Post by Walker »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:57 am
Walker wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:51 am .










Sculptor wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:43 am
It can be quite embarrassing to read what you say.
I know. The words of the Leftists that I quoted, and their news outlets, such as those I mentioned (MSNBC & CNN), are what people in other countries know about the USA ... and the Leftists that the folks in other countries believe are moronic propagandists, presenting moronic viewpoints, that the uninformed who refuse to educate themselves gobble up like corn-syrup candy and say please sir, may I have another lie to believe?

Those who swallow the absurdities of those Leftists are rather gullible, and eager. It's embarassing to behold.







.
I don't care about "leftists" - that is your version of them, and your prejudice of them.
I am concerned that you voice support for a criminal.
Trump was a criminal when he was elected.
Surely you know his long list of crimes?
Or are you in denial about them?
DO you admire his criminality?
Which is it?
What it is, is that you're a gullible fool who has been propagandized.

It's rather embarassing to read your silliness, and realize you're actually serious.

Whew.
Walker
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Trump

Post by Walker »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:41 am
Smarmy little kunt.
Oh yeah. I can do smarmy, particularly when it's appropriate.

Even though they tried to censor Trump’s victory speech, it still got out.
Simply put, he was gracious, and spoke of the future.

His presidential words, tone, tenor and presentation that make up this speech are out there to hear. Go find it. The effort to find it, rather than being spoon fed like a whiny baby who just can’t be pleased, will be a character builder because despite the wee bit of effort required for honest research, rather than swallowing what they tell you to swallow, you will have earned it.

How's that? Kunty enough?
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Trump

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Walker wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 11:00 am
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:57 am
Walker wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:51 am .












I know. The words of the Leftists that I quoted, and their news outlets, such as those I mentioned (MSNBC & CNN), are what people in other countries know about the USA ... and the Leftists that the folks in other countries believe are moronic propagandists, presenting moronic viewpoints, that the uninformed who refuse to educate themselves gobble up like corn-syrup candy and say please sir, may I have another lie to believe?

Those who swallow the absurdities of those Leftists are rather gullible, and eager. It's embarassing to behold.







.
I don't care about "leftists" - that is your version of them, and your prejudice of them.
I am concerned that you voice support for a criminal.
Trump was a criminal when he was elected.
Surely you know his long list of crimes?
Or are you in denial about them?
DO you admire his criminality?
Which is it?
What it is, is that you're a gullible fool who has been propagandized.

It's rather embarassing to read your silliness, and realize you're actually serious.

Whew.
Sculptor isn't 'left', he's a wonker. Wonkers are the modern day version of Nazis. Wonkers are frauds and imposters. It's because of wonkers that we are stuck with a clownshow of a govt. and a PM who doesn't believe in dinosaurs and wears matching pyjamas with his wife and children.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Wed Jan 17, 2024 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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