to grok god

[henry quirk]

Excellent, Roydop is of course the greatest philosopher ever to live and Advocate is well known to also be the greatest philosopher to ever live.



Should we summon Age, so that the greatest philosopher ever to live can join in this conversation?

I am the greatest philosopher to ever live because my theory concludes/transcends philosophy. The theory results/merges into actual life experience rather than existing only in the head as neverending "blah blah blah."

Today I will abide in perfect peace and happiness and you will be in Samsara. In a year from now you will be even deeper into the hell that is developing exponentially and I will still be in Moksha.

*This sounds eerily like the gloating of a born again gloating over those who will burn or be left behind.

*I agree. I thought ascended beings were supposed to be above base human pettiness.

[Iwannaplato]

*I agree. I thought ascended beings were supposed to be above base human pettiness.

Has he called himself an ascended being or is that you mocking or both?

[henry quirk]

*I agree. I thought ascended beings were supposed to be above base human pettiness.

Has he called himself an ascended being or is that you mocking or both?

Mockery, mostly. He probably thinks enlightened instead of ascended.

Me: i think it's all crap.

[attofishpi]

I am not sure whether Advocate with this list:-

a) there is no way to define god adequately to discuss rationally (igtheism)
b) god is real as a concept and there are as many versions as there are people who have thought about it, eg. many more than there are people alive today
c) all versions of god in range of ordinary use contain logically impossible, mutually exclusive, ineffable, or otherwise untestable attributes and are therefore indistinguishable from fiction
d) all potentially meaningful versions of god are personified. the versions that are mere forces are a matter (heh) for physics alone
e) there is no reason to believe a personified entity can exist other than in an Earth -bound and purely biological substrate, as all verifiable minds have been. any hypothesis to the contrary is supposition and indistinguishable from fiction.
f) even if such a being could be defined sufficiently to hypothetically test, finite beings cannot validate infinite things
g) even if there were such a test and we could carry out through, it has not been done
h) nfinite attributes are not logically possible as infinity is a direction or an instruction, not a specific attribute of being. all words that reference the transcendent, like anything infinite, is a mere placeholder for the ineffable
i) even if there was a god and we knew it, the exponential scale of the difference between our minds, in both senses (ours to gods and between the billions of each other), would make it impossible to understand what it wanted or how to go about it. the equivalent would be an ant trying to understand your love life.
j) all claimed evidence or proof for the existence of any god has been definitively refuted in many ways and at many times

In conclusion, there is no Reason to accept belief in god, even if he's real, and faith is unjustified belief - the polar opposite of knowledge

OR

iambiguous with this:list-

Sigh...

Just a reminder to the Christians here that, if they are willing, I'd appreciate them bringing their God to a discussion that revolves existentially around these factors:

1] a demonstrable proof of the existence of your God
2] addressing the fact that down through the ages hundreds of Gods and religious/spiritual paths to immortality and salvation were/are championed...but only one of which [if any] can be the true path. So why yours?
3] addressing the profoundly problematic role that dasein plays in any particular individual's belief in God
4] the questions that revolve around theodicy and your own particular God

Where I addressed every point they both raised (of which both lists are extremely inadequate in any attempt to refute the existence of God)...WHERE THEY BOTH WANTED TO CHALLENGE ME...and yet have not addressed even ONE of my answers to their stupid lists!

OH THY GREAT WISE PHILOSOPHERS - shove off back to ILP.

[Dontaskme]

Excellent, Roydop is of course the greatest philosopher ever to live and Advocate is well known to also be the greatest philosopher to ever live.



Should we summon Age, so that the greatest philosopher ever to live can join in this conversation?

I am the greatest philosopher to ever live because my theory concludes/transcends philosophy. The theory results/merges into actual life experience rather than existing only in the head as neverending "blah blah blah."

Today I will abide in perfect peace and happiness and you will be in Samsara. In a year from now you will be even deeper into the hell that is developing exponentially and I will still be in Moksha.

This sounds eerily like the gloating of a born again gloating over those who will burn or be left behind.

Then again it was a response to someone who was mocking the idea that one can transcend the philosophical mind which is the seeker mode of being, where one is constantly engaged in thinking all day long, ruminating over pasts and presents, which do not exist and are not real.

How I interpreted Roy's response to ''Flashy-Britches'' reply...was that if one person can transcend the philosopher which is ''thought'' which is samsara attachment to an identity, namely ''I am a philospher''...then every person can transcend the 'thinking mind'

Ironically any one who is a philosopher is also the greatest philosopher. We're all the greatest philosopher when we see through the falsity and illusion of all our philosophy. That's how I interpreted Roys response anyway, I could be wrong though, I don't know.

It does sound like the ''born again'' metaphor...But for me personally, it's just a recognition that we are most at bliss when we are abiding in thought free awareness...like what the zen koan '' ...What's wrong with right now unless you think about it?...''

It's true that most people you meet in life cannot stomach being bored, and that they will do just about anything to distract them from being bored. No one I have ever met has ever wanted to share with me a 3 hour long abiding state of pure thought free awareness. Rather, everyone I have ever been in personal relationship with have said things like ''...what shall we do now...'' never wanting to do nothing.

For those who do transcend into thought free awareness state, they never return to the realm of maya. The thought free state takes over their whole being, as though they were are a different person in comparison to how they used to be.

All Roy is saying is that most people are unable to deal with the non-activity/boredom aspect of being....and tend to want to fill that void, in the constant desire for satisfaction and entertainment.

But you will have your own interpretation of what Roy meant, too, and that's perfectly fine.

and I'm not talking about sitting down crossed legged on cushions together in deep mediatation ...I'm just talking about being in the presence of someone and not having to feel pressured into speaking to each other, or wanting the other to pay attention to us..or having any expectation or wanting them to be a certain way, or trying to change them, but just letting them be, perfectly how they are without judging them.

[Dontaskme]

I'm certainly not obsessed with Roy or anything like that. I'm just reeling and delighted that I have met someone who thinks and feels like me...when it comes to abiding in thought free awareness.

To be honest, these people are very rare in the world.

Roy would be my perfect life partner, my soul mate if you like...and meeting him proves to me that ''soul mates'' are a reality, they are real, and possible.

I am abiding in a life of blissful solitude right now, and the last thing I want is a partner in life to live with me.

But, back in the days when I desired partners to share my life with and to live together, I would have loved to have been hooked up to someone like Roy...but I was never lucky enough to find someone like that...that's all I'm saying.

[Iwannaplato]

Then again it was a response to someone who was mocking the idea that one can transcend the philosophical mind which is the seeker mode of being, where one is constantly engaged in thinking all day long, ruminating over pasts and presents, which do not exist and are not real.

If you are saying it was in response to someone mocking it is as if Roy's attitude depends on the other person's behavior. Which still seems pretty dualistic, but also it allows the other person to set the moral or spiritual ground. Well, that guy wasn't nice so he can gloat. It's certainly human, but given Roy's claims, it seems an ill fit with his purported state.

How I interpreted Roy's response to ''Flashy-Britches'' reply...was that if one person can transcend the philosopher which is ''thought'' which is samsara attachment to an identity, namely ''I am a philospher''...then every person can transcend the 'thinking mind'

And for many hard core Christians anyone can accept Jesus in their hearts and avoid Hell or being left behind. And, in fact, Roy thinks the end is nigh for civilization. He does have a Christian background and while the categories have changed the dynamic seems pretty similar to me.

Ironically any one who is a philosopher is also the greatest philosopher.

I'm sorry that just doesn't fit. Yes, I think he believes that anyone can achieve what he says he has, but he has specifically found it strange that Roy Dopson is not being acknowledged by academia.

It does sound like the ''born again'' metaphor...But for me personally, it's just a recognition that we are most at bliss when we are abiding in thought free awareness...like what the zen koan '' ...What's wrong with right now unless you think about it?...''

I dunno, I think being raped may very well include a state of experience where one is not thinking and yet utterly hates every second of the experience. I think at root these kinds of believe

seem

on the surface to be accepting, but actually have a really hard time accepting our feelings about what is happening. A hidden dualism.

It's true that most people you meet in life cannot stomach being bored, and that they will do just about anything to distract them from being bored. No one I have ever met has ever wanted to share with me a 3 hour long abiding state of pure thought free awareness. Rather, everyone I have ever been in personal relationship with have said things like ''...what shall we do now...'' never wanting to do nothing.

Perhaps they are better able to accept their desires and emotions.

All Roy is saying is that most people are unable to deal with the non-activity/boredom aspect of being....and tend to want to fill that void, in the constant desire for satisfaction and entertainment.

For creativity, for dynamic and peaceful love of other people, to curiously explore the world, to make things...and so on. Yes, many people have a phobia of resting states, but I see no reason at all to put doing nothing up as the pinnacle of being.

But you will have your own interpretation of what Roy meant, too, and that's perfectly fine.

Great. Though I am not sure. It just did not feel at all like something an enlightened non-dualist would say.

[Iwannaplato]

I'm certainly not obsessed with Roy or anything like that. I'm just reeling and delighted that I have met someone who thinks and feels like me...when it comes to abiding in thought free awareness.

To be honest, these people are very rare in the world.

Roy would be my perfect life partner, my soul mate if you like...and meeting him proves to me that ''soul mates'' are a reality, they are real, and possible.

I am abiding in a life of blissful solitude right now, and the last thing I want is a partner in life to live with me.

But, back in the days when I desired partners to share my life with and to live together, I would have loved to have been hooked up to someone like Roy...but I was never lucky enough to find someone like that...that's all I'm saying.

Quite often when I read what you write I feel like you are presenting your official position. What's in your head about your life. Not what's in your heart and even day to day existence. And now you live in bliss.

[Dontaskme]

Well, that guy wasn't nice so he can gloat. It's certainly human, but given Roy's claims, it seems an ill fit with his purported state.

I don't agree with you there.

No it's not gloating, it's just reacting. It's reacting to the typical reaction of the other with another reaction, usually a knee-jerk.

And now you've reacted by assuming unless one is abiding in the state of being a ''divinely loving'' person, they have not reached Nirvana....when they have...it's like saying to someone, you cannot possibly be enlightened because you wouldn't speak to people in an ill defined way...but that's all wrong.. that's not right...people who have reached the Nirvana state can still be critical and harsh and firm and point fingers at someone else informing them of the error of their projections toward the one who is always in Nirvana...



This is not gloating, where someone acts like they are better than you..no, it's just being honest and telling people firmly that they are misinterpreting, distoring and twisting out of context, exactly what it is that is being pointed to.

[Dontaskme]

I'm certainly not obsessed with Roy or anything like that. I'm just reeling and delighted that I have met someone who thinks and feels like me...when it comes to abiding in thought free awareness.

To be honest, these people are very rare in the world.

Roy would be my perfect life partner, my soul mate if you like...and meeting him proves to me that ''soul mates'' are a reality, they are real, and possible.

I am abiding in a life of blissful solitude right now, and the last thing I want is a partner in life to live with me.

But, back in the days when I desired partners to share my life with and to live together, I would have loved to have been hooked up to someone like Roy...but I was never lucky enough to find someone like that...that's all I'm saying.

Quite often when I read what you write I feel like you are presenting your official position. What's in your head about your life. Not what's in your heart and even day to day existence. And now you live in bliss.

Something Roy said in his videos clicked for me, it was like the missing piece of the puzzle. Roy showed me how to let go of my own personal need to cling to suffering. Roy showed me how I can accept it and allow it to be, because he said it's always going to be a part of sentient life within the universe, and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it from happening.

What I mean is that we can end our attachment to suffering, and at the same time know that it will always be a part of our make up...the end of suffering, is the end of attachment to suffering. I was always of the mindset that life was just not worth living because who would want to live a life where you suffer....and so I could not let go of that idea of mine, of not wanting to be alive...but then Roy changed my mind about that, that's all I'm saying now.

Being in Nirvana is so misunderstood by what that actually means...and it does not mean that you have to be a 'Goody Two Shoes'' before you can qualify to be an enlightened being....that's just a stupid misconception of the state.

[Dontaskme]

In fact, I'd be very wary of a Spiritual Teacher who acts like a saint, never said a mean word, and was always 100% fault free...I wouldn't go near that person or trust them one iota... I prefer people who are real and genuine, and honest and not pretending to be someone they are not, by putting on a fake act of pure grace...Yuck!..can't think of anything worse.

Just be yourself ffs...and stop pretending you are out to impress others by being a certain way..others, especially highly aware people, will see you for who you really are instinctively, they will always see through fake people.

Roy is not fake, he is the most genuine and honest person I've ever seen.

[Dontaskme]

Though I am not sure. It just did not feel at all like something an enlightened non-dualist would say.

This is expectation..it's all wrong...it's deluded thinking.

To say it's not something I would expect an enlightened person to say is absolute bollocks. It is totally everything that is wrong with the human mind and the way it thinks...and that is what Roy is trying to point out, and no one seems to get it.

[FlashDangerpants]

Oh the contrast. All that hard sell mannie put into trying to convert Harbal and that other guy when they showed him just a tiny sliver of human vulnerability was wasted effort and just made him look super fucking creepy. But now this roydop idiot just swans in and grabs up a total 100% kool aid sniffing disciple with really no effort. I kinda feel bad for IC really.

[Dontaskme]

Oh the contrast. All that hard sell mannie put into trying to convert Harbal and that other guy when they showed him just a tiny sliver of human vulnerability was wasted effort and just made him look super fucking creepy. But now this roydop idiot just swans in and grabs up a total 100% kool aid sniffing disciple with really no effort. I kinda feel bad for IC really.

IC's error is that he rejects the nondual nature of existence.

That's why Roy wins hands down, and IC, is still stuck in the dream.

[Harbal]

IC's error is that he rejects the nondual nature of existence.

That's why Roy wins hands down, and IC, is still stuck in the dream.

I've already said that I don't really get all this dual, non-dual stuff, but it doesn't seem to be the case that Roy is in the non-dual camp.