Philosophy Now Forum

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:19 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:06 am I don't think it is. Mental illness sucks.

You cannot choose otherwise. We are trapped in the illusion forever.

That is terrifyingly true.

Feel the fear and do it anyway, at least we get some sleep between waking intervals. Sleeping has been my only sanctuary. I could literally sleep forever, if I had the choice.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:11 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:19 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:06 am I don't think it is. Mental illness sucks.

You cannot choose otherwise. We are trapped in the illusion forever.

That is terrifyingly true.

Feel the fear and do it anyway, at least we get some sleep between waking intervals. Sleeping has been my only sanctuary. I could literally sleep forever, if I had the choice.

Yes, I like to sleep a lot too.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:06 am I don't think it is. Mental illness sucks.

I do not believe you. If you really do no think it is worth living then you have several solutions, yet you have chosen not to take them.

There are various remedies for mental illness, some more effective than others. Dietary change, exercise, volunteering in good works, or even happy pills.
My view is that, although mental states are also chemical/physical brain states that can be altered by drugs but also by simple human praxis, either formal like CRT or filling your life with things you consider worthy.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:02 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:53 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:06 am I don't think it is. Mental illness sucks.

And is why you had the good sense not to procreate by having children.

Therefore, there is some intelligence there inside that there noggin of your yours. Maybe it's everyone else who is mental, not you.

I think the true winners in the game of life and evolution are those who don't procreate. The losers are the ones who doom their children to necessarily participate in this hell hole. There is no God. The world is devoid of purpose and meaning other than what people fantasize as purpose and meaning.

People can get a lot of meaning from their children, others do no. As a rubric parenthood is neither positive nor negative.
Your purpose is your own. This is the greatest reward of rejecting God.

Maybe you should cut down on carbs. Try fasting to activate your optimism.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:18 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:06 am I don't think it is. Mental illness sucks.

I do not believe you. If you really do no think it is worth living then you have several solutions, yet you have chosen not to take them.

There are various remedies for mental illness, some more effective than others. Dietary change, exercise, volunteering in good works, or even happy pills.
My view is that, although mental states are also chemical/physical brain states that can be altered by drugs but also by simple human praxis, either formal like CRT or filling your life with things you consider worthy.

Drugs lose effectiveness over time. I've been on some pretty powerful ones since I was 25. Increasing dosages usually just increases side effects along with it. Not everyone in this world is blessed with good mental health. Perhaps those who tell others to "be thankful" should start with themselves and thank God or nature (or whatever they believe in) that they do not have a severe mental illness. It's a whole different world from the inside. The day I had my first psychosis it changed me overnight from a spirited person to little more than a vegetable. Look up "negative symptoms of schizophrenia" and it'll tell you a little of what the severely mentally ill go through. And mental illness is a life sentence, there is no cure, only management of symptoms.

Ultimately there's nothing anyone can do for the mentally ill other than watch us decline. Of course, everyone declines over time, such is life. Life is a terminal illness but most look away from the abyss because they can. Those of us who are doomed to have seen the abyss just seem to suffer eternally.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:43 pmDrugs lose effectiveness over time. I've been on some pretty powerful ones since I was 25. Increasing dosages usually just increases side effects along with it. Not everyone in this world is blessed with good mental health. Perhaps those who tell others to "be thankful" should start with themselves and thank God or nature (or whatever they believe in) that they do not have a severe mental illness. It's a whole different world from the inside. The day I had my first psychosis it changed me overnight from a spirited person to little more than a vegetable. Look up "negative symptoms of schizophrenia" and it'll tell you a little of what the severely mentally ill go through. And mental illness is a life sentence, there is no cure, only management of symptoms.

Ultimately there's nothing anyone can do for the mentally ill other than watch us decline. Of course, everyone declines over time, such is life. Life is a terminal illness but most look away from the abyss because they can. Those of us who are doomed to have seen the abyss just seem to suffer eternally.

I have an interesting story. My younger half-sister began to have mental problems over 10 years ago. It got so bad that eventually her father, my former step-father, had her committed within the California mental health system. And she went to various facilities over the years. I always stayed in touch with her, by phone since I live outside the country. She veered in and out of coherency but for the most part was living in delusions of various sorts. The odd thing, it actually made it easier to keep in touch with her I admit, was that her delusions were always upbeat and spectacularly grandiose. Like she was in charge of the facility and actually ran it. That she was in a marvelous, healthy marriage and had various children (which she did not have).

But what finally took place was amazing. I do not know what happened. Was it a change of medication? I was never sure. But she began to recover her (I guess you call it) 'sanity'. She then went from a lock-down type facility to one somewhat more open. And from that one to a half-way house. That over about a year. And finally to living on her own but still receiving assistance from the State of California. She has a part-time job, her own apartment, and carries on. She opted to become a member of a church but I have not asked her much about what faith means to her. And it is a modernist California neo-Protestant church with a somewhat newage twist from what I have gathered. Yet she has lots of contacts there and of course support. She has had no relapses and I have not detected any delusions of any sort since she recovered.

But again I do not know what happened and how and why she recovered. I wondered if she retreated into mental illness (this is entirely speculative) as a way to stop facing herself, as an escape from herself, even as a way to punish her step-father (a public figure), but then eventually gave up that strategy? It almost seemed that way to me -- but I am chary to probe her too much though perhaps someday I will.

I do remember that when she did come out of it, and was more or less back to normal, she spent time Googling people she'd gone to school with and old friends and boyfriends to learn what they had done with themselves. I could tell that she was doing this while also realizing, painfully and lamentingly (another neologism) that she had lost an entire segment of her life to this 10 year episode. I could sense these were hard realizations. What happened happened and nothing could be done. Except to carry on.

That though the radiance which was once so bright be now forever taken from my sight. Though nothing can bring back the hour of splendor in the grass, glory in the flower. We will grieve not, rather find strength in what remains behind.

(I would not have, and don't have, any idea what to recommend. But one thing I feel confident I can fairly recommend: get support and don't remain in isolation.)

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:06 am I don't think it is. Mental illness sucks.

The essence of life says it is worth living. In fact, the essence of life is relatively immortal and is common to all life forms. The difference between life forms, is their forms, which is a result of adaptation to niche environments for where a new structure is created form fellows. The worth of living to the essence of life is a continuation in being, thus, the common fear of death among all organisms. So, life can be worth living even after the life essence takes on identity from its interaction within the environment, this is an intellectual occurrence and serves the essence of life in it determination to stay in being. It seems to me that if life is worth living on both levels, then one is having a most wonderful experience, perhaps even feeling the rapture of being alive. That said, it was Schopenhauer who stated that life is something that never should have been. Is something that can suffer better than nothing, no experience no regrets?

Yer right Gary... life is pretty bleak and man is an inherently despicable creature who's sole purpose is to act of his own self interests. And none of them are to blame for anything. Pretty fucked up, but that's just the way it is. Now if you're looking for what solutions are available to at least mitigate these circumstances, let me tell you where not to look for solutions: capitalism and religion. These two phenomena aggravate the circumstances even more.

As long as you lend these two things any credence at all, you're really not qualified to raise a complaint. Ignorance of these facts is no defense, either. I mean it's the kind of thing where anyone with an IQ higher than ninety should be able to understand all this without being spoon fed. The material is out there to be observed, and you can't miss it unless you are being purposely misled. Anybody who doesn't 'get it' can be summarily dismissed; they're either too stoopid, or they're liars. This is not their fault, of course, but they're useless nonetheless.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:43 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:18 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:06 am I don't think it is. Mental illness sucks.

I do not believe you. If you really do no think it is worth living then you have several solutions, yet you have chosen not to take them.

There are various remedies for mental illness, some more effective than others. Dietary change, exercise, volunteering in good works, or even happy pills.
My view is that, although mental states are also chemical/physical brain states that can be altered by drugs but also by simple human praxis, either formal like CRT or filling your life with things you consider worthy.

Drugs lose effectiveness over time. I've been on some pretty powerful ones since I was 25. Increasing dosages usually just increases side effects along with it. Not everyone in this world is blessed with good mental health. Perhaps those who tell others to "be thankful" should start with themselves and thank God or nature (or whatever they believe in) that they do not have a severe mental illness. It's a whole different world from the inside. The day I had my first psychosis it changed me overnight from a spirited person to little more than a vegetable. Look up "negative symptoms of schizophrenia" and it'll tell you a little of what the severely mentally ill go through. And mental illness is a life sentence, there is no cure, only management of symptoms.

Ultimately there's nothing anyone can do for the mentally ill other than watch us decline. Of course, everyone declines over time, such is life. Life is a terminal illness but most look away from the abyss because they can. Those of us who are doomed to have seen the abyss just seem to suffer eternally.

Then why doesn't it come across in your writing? Your writing is a manifestation of what is going on in your head.
I've crossed paths with a few schizophrenics in my life and they were pretty terrifying, to be honest. I doubt if they would have been capable of coming across as normal in any circumstances or environment. One had covered the entire outside of his house in teeny tiny writing of incomprehensible ramblings. His sister lived in fear of him. Another one stabbed a stranger on a bus for allegedly looking at him in the wrong way. Does it occur to you that all the drugs might have caused many of your problems?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:34 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:28 am So what are you doing?

I'm speaking of my experience, because if I don't, then I have to bury it inside of me. It helps me to get it out into the open. Otherwise, I don't have a whole lot to talk to anyone about.

That sad, Gary. And I mean that literally, and without irony. But wouldn't it be better to find a counselor, maybe somebody with insight on the chemical, physiological and social dimensions of your situation? I mean, that would likely be closer to helpful that this.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:43 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:18 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:06 am I don't think it is. Mental illness sucks.

I do not believe you. If you really do no think it is worth living then you have several solutions, yet you have chosen not to take them.

There are various remedies for mental illness, some more effective than others. Dietary change, exercise, volunteering in good works, or even happy pills.
My view is that, although mental states are also chemical/physical brain states that can be altered by drugs but also by simple human praxis, either formal like CRT or filling your life with things you consider worthy.

Drugs lose effectiveness over time. I've been on some pretty powerful ones since I was 25. Increasing dosages usually just increases side effects along with it. Not everyone in this world is blessed with good mental health.

I know - my brother was profoundly schizophrenic.
What drugs have you been taking?

Perhaps those who tell others to "be thankful" should start with themselves and thank God or nature (or whatever they believe in) that they do not have a severe mental illness.

I did not ask you to be thankful.
I said there are things you can do.

It's a whole different world from the inside. The day I had my first psychosis it changed me overnight from a spirited person to little more than a vegetable. Look up "negative symptoms of schizophrenia" and it'll tell you a little of what the severely mentally ill go through. And mental illness is a life sentence, there is no cure, only management of symptoms.

My brother could not have written what you can. There are levels, and diferences between individuals. There are also bad diagnoses, and a very limited understanding amongst the "profession" as to what counts as schizophrenia, and who "deserves" to be nominated with the condition.

Ultimately there's nothing anyone can do for the mentally ill other than watch us decline.

That is false.

Of course, everyone declines over time, such is life. Life is a terminal illness but most look away from the abyss because they can. Those of us who are doomed to have seen the abyss just seem to suffer eternally.

In the end, everyone must ask themselves, was the candle worth the flame?

I've seen plenty of happy faces in hospitals and cemeteries.

Agent Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:06 am I've seen plenty of happy faces in hospitals and cemeteries.

Then they answered in the affirmative, or you were on the psychiatric ward---lol!!

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:12 am

Agent Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:06 am I've seen plenty of happy faces in hospitals and cemeteries.

Then they answered in the affirmative, or you were on the psychiatric ward---lol!!

Interesting! So we're all mad in our own little ways, oui?