PTH wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:32 pmThe difficulty arises, IMHO, from using the word "emergence" without clearly stating that we are using a term with a clear meaning and understanding in some contexts (like accounting for the ability to fly) as a speculation about how some things we don't understand
may occur (like physical brains producing consciousness).
If any one wants to look at and discuss the word 'Consciousness' in regards to 'emergence', then, now that I am able to do this from the perspective of 'flight', and how 'it' emerges from the parts of an airplane, then let us proceed.
To me, the word 'conscious' relates close enough to the word 'aware', in other words 'being conscious' or 'being aware' is roughly close enough to each other to begin discussing this. If we can understand, agree upon, and accept what 'being aware' entails, then I do not think physical brains produce Consciousness.
Brains produce thoughts, and thoughts provide a view of things, from that brain, and in that sense, some thoughts are evidence of, and thus show,
a 'consciousness', or
an awareness, of the surroundings, of that body. This is consciousness with a small 'c'. I say small 'c' because these thoughts are not full consciousness (nor full awareness) of ALL things. They are just
A consciousness of some things, which obviously all brains individually are only capable of doing. Consciousness, with capital 'C', of ALL things, however, is when True or Full Consciousness comes into play now.
PTH wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:32 pmI think the word "emergence" has also been used when trying to account for how unconscious atoms might, in combination, produce consciousness. In this context, no explanation is being attempted. Its just a speculation - that maybe, in some way, consciousness "emerges" in the same way as we know (as much as things can be known) that the ability to fly emerges from putting wings, engine and body together.
ALL atoms can be conceived to be unconscious, including ALL of the atoms that make up a human body and a human brain. Thoughts, however, are invisible (to the physical eyes) and as such may not be made up of atoms, unconscious or conscious, at all. These invisible thoughts emerge from the atoms of human brains 'doing their thing', it might be said. Thoughts just arise as knowledge, (or a conscious awareness of the environment), from the brain, which gets its information from any or all of the five senses of the body that that brain is in.
Invisible thought, or a conscious awareness, emerges or arise from the unconscious atoms of the brain, just like flight emerges or arises from the unconscious atoms of a plane.
Thought is like flight as both are not actual physical things, as far as we know, but instead both are a just a concept of some "non-physical" thing that emerges from physical atoms. Invisible thoughts are just a form of consciousness, which emerges from the physical brain.
Consciousness, the KNOWING of ALL, Itself, however, is some thing much more than just an awareness of the environment but also an Awareness of ALL things, including Its Self. The unknowing answer to the question 'Who am 'I'?' shows just how a supposedly self-conscious (or self-aware) animal is really NOT a self-conscious (nor self-aware) animal at all. This animal just
thinks it is self-aware, and it likes to keep portraying this self-centered "intelligence" to try to place itself above and over other animals.
To me, within the so called "unconscious atoms" is an intrinsic KNOWING within them. This KNOWING is of being alive (or living).
Consciousness, Itself, that is; the ALL-KNOWING Awareness, has KNOWN ALL of this always. However, Consciousness, Itself, needs to wait for an intelligent enough animal to evolve into a stage where its brain is able to be conscious (or aware) enough to learn how all of this happens to work. In this sense True Consciousness is 'emerging'. Only through the collective learned consciousness of ALL individuals that True or Full Consciousness emerges into play. Full Consciousness is just the sum of ALL of Its parts, which is just the conscious knowing or awareness of EVERY thing, which shows the Totality of ALL-THERE-IS.
There is a reason WHY Consciousness always exists in the HERE and NOW, and
There is a reason HOW Consciousness always exists in the HERE and NOW.
consciousness, or conscious thought, emerges with and from the atoms of the human brain and the atoms of the human body.
Consciousness, Itself, emerges with and from the collective conscious knowledge, held within thoughts, which are within all of the individual human bodies.
'That', which is accepted and agreed with by ALL, is the Consciousness (conscious KNOWING or Awareness) that is continually emerging in ALL living things, until a truly intelligent enough animal/species where It can reveal its Self.
But to delve into this further what I have written so far needs to be either corrected or agreed with.