Advertising. What is it? What does it do?

[reasonemotion]

Advertising......what is it? a perusasion technique.

What does it do? ..... creates a need. This type of persuasion appeals to a person's fundamental needs. i.e. shelter, love, self esteem, etc.

[Pluto]

Yes, sure. But, I want to say, present advertising content is unethical and anti-enlightenment in its approach.

[chaz wyman]

Yes, sure. But, I want to say, present advertising content is unethical and anti-enlightenment in its approach.

1) What - all of it?
2) What do you think an ethical position in advertising looks like?
3) What curious construction is :"Enlightenment"? as it relates to advertising?

[Pluto]

Yes, sure. But, I want to say, present advertising content is unethical and anti-enlightenment in its approach.

1) What - all of it?
2) What do you think an ethical position in advertising looks like?
3) What curious construction is :"Enlightenment"? as it relates to advertising?

1. I want to say that corporate mass media advertising is unethical and anti-enlightenment, yes.
2. An ethical position in advertising looks nothing like present advertising, but may resemble an advert in a Paris metro I once saw which simply advertised oranges (no brand) as worthy of consideration towards the purchase of such oranges. (oranges are good for you consider eating them)
3. An enlightenment that is opposed to witch burning and superstition and in relation to contemporary advertising as a form that doesn't frame man as an insect but as a human entity of continuous becoming. Present advertising has man as fixed, this is unethical and fascist.

[chaz wyman]

Yes, sure. But, I want to say, present advertising content is unethical and anti-enlightenment in its approach.

1) What - all of it?
2) What do you think an ethical position in advertising looks like?
3) What curious construction is :"Enlightenment"? as it relates to advertising?

1. I want to say that corporate mass media advertising is unethical and anti-enlightenment, yes.

What about advertising for Live Aid, WHO, Oxfam, Public Information?

2. An ethical position in advertising looks nothing like present advertising, but may resemble an advert in a Paris metro I once saw which simply advertised oranges (no brand) as worthy of consideration towards the purchase of such oranges.

In what way is that NOT "mass media"?

3. An enlightenment that is opposed to witch burning and superstition and in relation to contemporary advertising as a form that doesn't frame man as an insect but as a human entity of continuous becoming. Present advertising has man as fixed, this is unethical and fascist.

Then you are confused. Modern advertising does not exhort us to burn witches; nor does it frame man as an insect. In fact there is very little that bears any relation to the conventional conception of the 18thC "Enlightenment" as conceived by historical discourse. In fact it would be easy enough to argue that modern advertising encourages social progress of the individual - so far from being anti-E it actively promotes those aims.
I think you will have a job equating advertising with Fascism.

[Pluto]

1. I want to say that corporate mass media advertising is unethical and anti-enlightenment, yes.

What about advertising for Live Aid, WHO, Oxfam, Public Information?

2. An ethical position in advertising looks nothing like present advertising, but may resemble an advert in a Paris metro I once saw which simply advertised oranges (no brand) as worthy of consideration towards the purchase of such oranges.

In what way is that NOT "mass media"?

3. An enlightenment that is opposed to witch burning and superstition and in relation to contemporary advertising as a form that doesn't frame man as an insect but as a human entity of continuous becoming. Present advertising has man as fixed, this is unethical and fascist.

Then you are confused. Modern advertising does not exhort us to burn witches; nor does it frame man as an insect. In fact there is very little that bears any relation to the conventional conception of the 18thC "Enlightenment" as conceived by historical discourse. In fact it would be easy enough to argue that modern advertising encourages social progress of the individual - so far from being anti-E it actively promotes those aims.
I think you will have a job equating advertising with Fascism.

1. Those organisations you mention, because they are in the world and therefore in the zeitgeist (Western), use the communication practices of the time, their promotion material are either in line with or in opposition to the dominant mainstream corporate advertising and thus part of it. Just because those organisations you mention may in your mind exist as some kind of antithisis to the corporate this doesn't then follow that their advertising would be different. Corporate advertising is a big shark and all other advertising the fish that feed off/follow it, etc.

2. You've missed out the word 'corporate' here. Mass media in itself doesn't necessarily imply that it should be human problematic. It is the Corporations' adverts which reflect a certain confined way of thinking and being. That is, a thinking and being conducive to their aims.

3. The man and woman that's projected in corporate advertising has been created so that you will want to become it, and by doing so, will work better as a cog in the machine. There are elements of 'improvement' but it's only in order that more products are shifted and a lifestyle is framed and seen as desirable/sexy/successful,etc. This is shallow and empty. Advertising is not the church. It frames man as economic component. It is way too restrictive.

[chaz wyman]

1. I want to say that corporate mass media advertising is unethical and anti-enlightenment, yes.

What about advertising for Live Aid, WHO, Oxfam, Public Information?

2. An ethical position in advertising looks nothing like present advertising, but may resemble an advert in a Paris metro I once saw which simply advertised oranges (no brand) as worthy of consideration towards the purchase of such oranges.

In what way is that NOT "mass media"?

3. An enlightenment that is opposed to witch burning and superstition and in relation to contemporary advertising as a form that doesn't frame man as an insect but as a human entity of continuous becoming. Present advertising has man as fixed, this is unethical and fascist.

Then you are confused. Modern advertising does not exhort us to burn witches; nor does it frame man as an insect. In fact there is very little that bears any relation to the conventional conception of the 18thC "Enlightenment" as conceived by historical discourse. In fact it would be easy enough to argue that modern advertising encourages social progress of the individual - so far from being anti-E it actively promotes those aims.
I think you will have a job equating advertising with Fascism.

1. Those organisations you mention, because they are in the world and therefore in the zeitgeist (Western), use the communication practices of the time, their promotion material are either in line with or in opposition to the dominant mainstream corporate advertising and thus part of it. Just because those organisations you mention may in your mind exist as some kind of antithisis to the corporate this doesn't then follow that their advertising would be different. Corporate advertising is a big shark and all other advertising the fish that feed off/follow it, etc.

In other words, you are saying that if Oxfam just shut up and stopped advertising then they would become the Ethical organisation that they now are not? You are saying that LIve Aid is UNETHICAL - because it was all about advertising - let's face it - no one would have heard of it without advertising!!

2. You've missed out the word 'corporate' here. Mass media in itself doesn't necessarily imply that it should be a problem in some way. It is the Corporations adverts which reflect a new-age-cage of thinking and being.

Corporations are big and small, the word only excludes those busness concerns that are led by one person. Are you saying that THEY are more ethical because they are NOT corporate - Or is it , as I think, you don't know what the fuck a 'corporation" is and it is nothing more than a "bug-bear" word for naughty capitalism.

3. The man and woman that's projected in corporate advertising has been created so that you will want to become it, and by doing so, will work better as a cog in the machine.

That is just a false caricature. It is the case in some adverts, not all.

There are elements of 'improvement' but it's only in order that more products are shifted and a lifestyle is framed and seen as desirable/sexy/successful,etc. This is shallow and empty. Advertising is not the church.

No, the 'church' is much worse. The church tells you to shut up and behave, and if you do, and if you stay down, and live meekly and suffer, then you get a big reward WHEN YOU DIE. Sadly this 'promise' has never been verified.

[Pluto]

1. Those organisations you mention, because they are in the world and therefore in the zeitgeist (Western), use the communication practices of the time, their promotion material are either in line with or in opposition to the dominant mainstream corporate advertising and thus part of it. Just because those organisations you mention may in your mind exist as some kind of antithisis to the corporate this doesn't then follow that their advertising would be different. Corporate advertising is a big shark and all other advertising the fish that feed off/follow it, etc.

In other words, you are saying that if Oxfam just shut up and stopped advertising then they would become the Ethical organisation that they now are not? You are saying that LIve Aid is UNETHICAL - because it was all about advertising - let's face it - no one would have heard of it without advertising!!

2. You've missed out the word 'corporate' here. Mass media in itself doesn't necessarily imply that it should be a problem in some way. It is the Corporations adverts which reflect a new-age-cage of thinking and being.

Corporations are big and small, the word only excludes those busness concerns that are led by one person. Are you saying that THEY are more ethical because they are NOT corporate - Or is it , as I think, you don't know what the fuck a 'corporation" is and it is nothing more than a "bug-bear" word for naughty capitalism.

3. The man and woman that's projected in corporate advertising has been created so that you will want to become it, and by doing so, will work better as a cog in the machine.

That is just a false caricature. It is the case in some adverts, not all.

There are elements of 'improvement' but it's only in order that more products are shifted and a lifestyle is framed and seen as desirable/sexy/successful,etc. This is shallow and empty. Advertising is not the church.

No, the 'church' is much worse. The church tells you to shut up and behave, and if you do, and if you stay down, and live meekly and suffer, then you get a big reward WHEN YOU DIE. Sadly this 'promise' has never been verified.

1. No, I'm saying that Oxfam's adverts are the same as Microsoft's adverts. They should advertise themselves yes, but as they use ad agencies that are filled with people who know 'what works' they automatically come across as the same.

2. Maybe, but corporate advertising is the mainstream as corporations are running the information highway. Let us not forget that corporations are boss at the start of the 21st Century. And will therefore dictate. I'm talking about mainly Anglo-American mega-corporations who are able to set the zeitgeist. The rest follow because to do otherwise would be commercial suicide, the stream is set, and is flowing in a certain direction. It is extremely difficult to pull the whole thing back over to where you might want it to go.

3. Yes the church is/was problematic but at least they suggested that I was made in God's image. And would have a place to go afterwards if I was good. This is far more creative. Maybe we could say that advertising talks to the animal being and church the human being, though I don't want to suggest the church as saviour. I'm just saying another idea of what man is is in the making.

[chaz wyman]

1. Those organisations you mention, because they are in the world and therefore in the zeitgeist (Western), use the communication practices of the time, their promotion material are either in line with or in opposition to the dominant mainstream corporate advertising and thus part of it. Just because those organisations you mention may in your mind exist as some kind of antithisis to the corporate this doesn't then follow that their advertising would be different. Corporate advertising is a big shark and all other advertising the fish that feed off/follow it, etc.

In other words, you are saying that if Oxfam just shut up and stopped advertising then they would become the Ethical organisation that they now are not? You are saying that LIve Aid is UNETHICAL - because it was all about advertising - let's face it - no one would have heard of it without advertising!!

2. You've missed out the word 'corporate' here. Mass media in itself doesn't necessarily imply that it should be a problem in some way. It is the Corporations adverts which reflect a new-age-cage of thinking and being.

Corporations are big and small, the word only excludes those busness concerns that are led by one person. Are you saying that THEY are more ethical because they are NOT corporate - Or is it , as I think, you don't know what the fuck a 'corporation" is and it is nothing more than a "bug-bear" word for naughty capitalism.

3. The man and woman that's projected in corporate advertising has been created so that you will want to become it, and by doing so, will work better as a cog in the machine.

That is just a false caricature. It is the case in some adverts, not all.

There are elements of 'improvement' but it's only in order that more products are shifted and a lifestyle is framed and seen as desirable/sexy/successful,etc. This is shallow and empty. Advertising is not the church.

No, the 'church' is much worse. The church tells you to shut up and behave, and if you do, and if you stay down, and live meekly and suffer, then you get a big reward WHEN YOU DIE. Sadly this 'promise' has never been verified.

1. No, I'm saying that Oxfam's adverts are the same as Microsoft's adverts. They should advertise themselves yes, but as they use ad agencies that are filled with people who know 'what works' they automatically come across as the same.

So did the purchase of the computer under your fingers not involve advertising?


2. Maybe, but corporate advertising is the mainstream as corporations are running the information highway. Let us not forget that corporations are boss at the start of the 21st Century. And will therefore dictate.

Just like the church was the boss. They only thrive on idiots not thinking for themselves.


3. Yes the church is/was problematic but at least they suggested that I was made in God's image. And would have a place to go afterwards if I was good. This is far more creative.

Creative?? Lies are creative, but they are best when they are believable - no one with any sense could possibly fall that that old one these days.


Maybe we could say that advertising talks to the animal and church the human, though I don't want to suggest the church as saviour.

No , I don't think so. They both talk to morons, and morons listen to both. There is no difference between corporate lies and church lies, except that the corporate ones are more convincing, and so more effective at getting noticed.


I'm just saying another idea of what man is is in the making.

[Pluto]

[quote]1. No, I'm saying that Oxfam's adverts are the same as Microsoft's adverts. They should advertise themselves yes, but as they use ad agencies that are filled with people who know 'what works' they automatically come across as the same.

So did the purchase of the computer under your fingers not involve advertising?
Yes of course, not sure what your point is here. Advertising could be (though hard to see how) ideologically neutral, today it isn't. It is ideologically motivated and it is an ideology moribund.


2. Maybe, but corporate advertising is the mainstream as corporations are running the information highway. Let us not forget that corporations are boss at the start of the 21st Century. And will therefore dictate.

Just like the church was the boss. They only thrive on idiots not thinking for themselves.
There are no exceptions we are all, to some degree, products of a 'church' system.


3. Yes the church is/was problematic but at least they suggested that I was made in God's image. And would have a place to go afterwards if I was good. This is far more creative.

Creative?? Lies are creative, but they are best when they are believable - no one with any sense could possibly fall that that old one these days.
Rather illusions, there is no solid objective truth (at least to the human mind) and so we must create creative frameworks in which to live. What we call - the Universe/World - is beyond our comprehension, though we continually strive to uncover and discover it.


Maybe we could say that advertising talks to the animal and church the human, though I don't want to suggest the church as saviour.

No , I don't think so. They both talk to morons, and morons listen to both. There is no difference between corporate lies and church lies, except that the corporate ones are more convincing, and so more effective at getting noticed.
Corporate ones are the Now, it is normal that they would be more effective. You talk as though you stand outside of the 'moron framework'. This is good, but what is your framework? Reason?

[chaz wyman]

I just think that your blanket statements about advertising are too general to agree with, or respond to in a meaningful way.

[Pluto]

To see the advert of old in order that, with hindsight, we may see the mechanics.

http://archive.org/details/Televisi1960

[Pluto]

Advertising is bringing a product (or service) to the attention of potential and current customers. Advertising is focused on one particular product or service. Thus, an advertising plan for one product might be very different than that for another product. Advertising is typically done with signs, brochures, commercials, direct mailings or e-mail messages, personal contact, etc.
Advertising is one-way communications aimed at large groups of consumers.Advertising is about driving people to a buying decision.

It is. It can steer people into the right direction.

[Pluto]

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exch ... 56191.html

[Bill Wiltrack]

.









..........................................................................Makes you laugh?









.