Seeing the Brain 'seeing-God'

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Iwannaplato
Posts: 6860
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Seeing the Brain 'seeing-God'

Post by Iwannaplato »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 8:20 am This was what got to me, i.e. accusing me of running away from an argument.
Well, I was correct. There was an implicit not stated argument. I had to make I think three attempts to get you to actually articulate the arguement. You didn't deal with your implicit argument here. That's what I said. I didn't say 'you are running away.' It did allow you to not really respond. You implied a conclusion, but did not actually make the argument. You want views on an an arguement, my suggestion would be to actually make the argument instead of implying it.
Repeat:
I started this thread re the following;
In the OP, I asked for "views" [on topic].
I expect different people will have different views to the above.
I haven't said otherwise.
Perhaps, someone has read the above is a false research, so offer his evidence.
That's not what I thought. It's a one person study and it's not clear that they drew any totalizing conclusions about theists or the key figures in religions. So, it doesn't really matter to me. I know that some people have religious type experiences during seizures.
Someone may have something additional to add.
In a more active forum, there will be a range of views from various posters.
Sure.
I am not running away from any arguments by opening new threads but for various other legit reasons from my perspective.
Whatever the argument I will am willing to discuss with anyone [with exceptions] to the bottom of it in the respective thread.
But as it turned out you had an implicit argument. The title plus what you posted implies this.
I believe the above paper is unique; if I dump it into another bigger thread with more posts, it is likely to be lost like a needle in the haystack and difficult to find.
You didn't tell us why it was unique. You didn't present the implicit argument untill pressed several times by me. Yes, we can have differing ideas about what can be handled in one thread and what works better by starting a new thread. You might have noticed that you are on the extreme end of the Bell Curve and that many of your threads have very close to the same title, include OP's with quotes from other posts and threads of yours and are directly taking up previous arguments, often with points that fit well in the old discussion. Often directly responding to the last post in another thread. Just because you are on the extreme end of a bell curve of behavior - creating lots of threads on the same topics - doesn not mean you are wrong. I find it irritating for the reasons stated.
Whereas if I open a new thread it will be easy for me to trace it via the titles of the OP which I keep a listing for easy reference.

Don't boss around and make condescending remarks.
You just bossed me around. Further that's your interpretation of what I did. And 'condescending remarks'??!! What a laugh. You contantly tell people they are being naive, primitive, barbaric, ignorant and more. You have some other rhetorical devices that are condescending.
The facts is, threads here are often polluted with loads of off-topic posts.
I agree.
I suggest to anyone, if my threads are confusing or messed up, they should open a new thread to trash it out.
I think you mean 'trash' though it does make a nice play on words, perhaps it was intentional to use 'trash'.
If I think a post of yours is confusing, it makes much more sense to me to point this out in that thread. Generally that's where people ask for clarification or point out what seem like contradictions. To me that makes much more sense.
I realize or better put believe this is a taste issue.

What I noticed what I thought was a thread that due its title couple with the contents of the OP had an implicit argument. The argument was not made, in fact, so far I think only a gesture at it has been made. My view, since you asked for views, was that there was an implicit argument. I also think it is a very weak one - once you finally made this argument more explicit, I made my counterargument more explicit.

Honestly I can't see what the problem is.

If you want views on an argument, then make an explict argument. If you want feedback on an article, then avoid a title that implies the conclusions you are drawing, on very weak grounds, from that article without actually stating them.

I don't know your motive for not actually writing your argument out. I do know, as I said, that it allowed you not do certain things.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12993
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Seeing the Brain 'seeing-God'

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

There is no need for me provide any implicit or explicit argument in the OP.
The OP is just asking for views whatever that may be depending individuals views.

If anyone have views or think there is a further argument from the OP, then bring it on to discuss or debate it.

I have added further comments in respond to later posts, but I need not have to put forward any implicit nor explicit argument in the OP when I first raised it.
WHO ARE YOU to insist I must conform to your expectations which in this case is unnecessary.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12993
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Seeing the Brain 'seeing-God'

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

With reference to 'views' I can summarize my position from various threads;

God is an Impossibility [to be Real]
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24704
New: It is Impossible for God to be Real
viewtopic.php?t=40229
Thus God is an illusion, nevertheless a useful illusion.

The Neuro-psychological causes of believing in an illusory God;
Listing of Causes in Experiencing God
viewtopic.php?t=40346
One of the most common cause is Temporal Epilepsy

I should raise another thread specializing in research where Temporal Epilepsy is one significant cause for one to have divine presence.
There are tons of research on this subject.
Here are 11 pages of research papers related to the above;
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?linkna ... d=26351599
'Pubmed' is a reputable site for research papers.
There are more elsewhere.

Temporal Epilepsy in actions as verified neurally;
Seeing the Brain 'seeing-God'
viewtopic.php?t=40337

The take away is this;
Since God is impossible to be real and is caused by neuro-psychological causes of which one of the most common cause is Temporal Epilepsy of various degrees;
those who insist God exists as real, especially fanatically,
should check with a psychiatrist to eliminate the possibility they are suffering from some form [degrees] of temporal epilepsy.

If their belief that God is not due to temporal epilepsy, then, it must be other neuro-psychological causes because it is impossible for God to exists as real in a verifiable sense.

The above is my subsequent comments to the OP in response to the views of other posters or for me to add on.
There is no imperative for me to add the above comments in the OP when it was raised originally.
Iwannaplato
Posts: 6860
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Seeing the Brain 'seeing-God'

Post by Iwannaplato »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:55 am The take away is this;
Since God is impossible to be real and is caused by neuro-psychological causes of which one of the most common cause is Temporal Epilepsy of various degrees;
No, the research you posted does not support in the least the broad stroke conclusion you present here. There are no neuroscienstics who think that a significant minority let alone majority of theists have epilepsy.

It's bullshit. You are promoting bullshit conclusions.
those who insist God exists as real, especially fanatically,
should check with a psychiatrist to eliminate the possibility they are suffering from some form [degrees] of temporal epilepsy.
LOL
If their belief that God is not due to temporal epilepsy, then, it must be other neuro-psychological causes because it is impossible for God to exists as real in a verifiable sense.
And if you are incorrect about temporal epilepsy being one of the most common causes of theism, does this mean you suffer from a neurological disorder.

Also, you are confused about the professions in involved. If for whatever reason you think you are suffering from epilepsy you should go to a neurologist. You may need a referral from a general practitioner. Neurologist not psychiastrist. This fits with your confusion about epilepsty being a mental illness. I am not sure how you don't know basic things about the medical profession while at the same time making such broad diagnoses of billions of people.

Further it is unclear what the long term beliefs are of those epileptics who have religious type experiences during seizures. A number attribute the experiences, well, to the seizures. Just as other epileptics have experiences of different sounds, hallucinations, music in their heads, but don't after the seizure assume that these things are real. So 1) there is not indication that temporal lobe epilepsy is present in a significant number of theists, nor that 2) those who do have religious experiences during epilepsy then treat these experiences as evidence of God, not that 3) that some people have these experiences during seizures means that this demonstrates anything about the existence of God. Given that, for example, epilelptics can also experience the presence of things considered real by science but which were not present for them. It's a fallacious to assume that if one can experience something because of a seizure based hallucination that thing isn't real in general.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12993
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Seeing the Brain 'seeing-God'

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

No, the research you posted does not support in the least the broad stroke conclusion you present here. There are no neuroscienstics who think that a significant minority let alone majority of theists have epilepsy.
It's bullshit. You are promoting bullshit conclusions.

Strawman.
I did not assert the 'majority of theists have epilepsy'.

I stated this suggestion, repeat;

Since God is impossible to be real and is caused by neuro-psychological causes of which one of the most common cause is Temporal Epilepsy of various degrees;
those who insist God exists as real, especially fanatically,
should check with a psychiatrist to eliminate the possibility they are suffering from some form [degrees] of temporal epilepsy.

If their belief that God is not due to temporal epilepsy, then, it must be other neuro-psychological causes because it is impossible for God to exists as real in a verifiable sense.
And if you are incorrect about temporal epilepsy being one of the most common causes of theism, does this mean you suffer from a neurological disorder.

Also, you are confused about the professions in involved. If for whatever reason you think you are suffering from epilepsy you should go to a neurologist. You may need a referral from a general practitioner. Neurologist not psychiastrist. This fits with your confusion about epilepsty being a mental illness. I am not sure how you don't know basic things about the medical profession while at the same time making such broad diagnoses of billions of people.

Further it is unclear what the long term beliefs are of those epileptics who have religious type experiences during seizures. A number attribute the experiences, well, to the seizures. Just as other epileptics have experiences of different sounds, hallucinations, music in their heads, but don't after the seizure assume that these things are real. So 1) there is not indication that temporal lobe epilepsy is present in a significant number of theists, nor that 2) those who do have religious experiences during epilepsy then treat these experiences as evidence of God, not that 3) that some people have these experiences during seizures means that this demonstrates anything about the existence of God. Given that, for example, epilelptics can also experience the presence of things considered real by science but which were not present for them. It's a fallacious to assume that if one can experience something because of a seizure based hallucination that thing isn't real in general.
Again, it was a suggestion,

I stated this suggestion, repeat;

Since God is impossible to be real and is caused by neuro-psychological causes of which one of the most common cause is Temporal Epilepsy of various degrees;
those who insist God exists as real, especially fanatically,
should check with a psychiatrist to eliminate the possibility they are suffering from some form [degrees] of temporal epilepsy.

There are billions of theists but not many of these billions are that fanatical or serious to defend their God in a forum.

Given that, for example, epilelptics can also experience the presence of things considered real by science but which were not present for them. It's a fallacious to assume that if one can experience something because of a seizure based hallucination that thing isn't real in general.
Many hallucinations refer to empirically real things.

Hallucinations with reference to God is not empirical but merely of 'divine presence' which is reified as real.
I have proven God is impossible to be really REAL.
New: It is Impossible for God to be Real
viewtopic.php?t=40229

Therefore it is NOT fallacious to rationalize that if one can experience something [God] because of a seizure based hallucination that thing isn't real in general.
Last edited by Veritas Aequitas on Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12993
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Seeing the Brain 'seeing-God'

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

double posting
Iwannaplato
Posts: 6860
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Seeing the Brain 'seeing-God'

Post by Iwannaplato »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:33 am Strawman.
I did not assert the 'majority of theists have epilepsy'.
Oh, but with your confusing English you did.
If their belief that God is not due to temporal epilepsy, then, it must be other neuro-psychological causes because it is impossible for God to exists as real in a verifiable sense.
this makes it sound like it is either epilepsy or something similar, especially given your earlier categorizing epilepsy as a mental illness.
I stated this suggestion, repeat;

Since God is impossible to be real and is caused by neuro-psychological causes of which one of the most common cause is Temporal Epilepsy of various degrees;
And you have no justification for saying it is one of the most common causes.

You're spewing out dangerous mistruths. And if I thought people would listen to you, I would consider your posts effectively toxic.
those who insist God exists as real, especially fanatically,
should check with a psychiatrist to eliminate the possibility they are suffering from some form [degrees] of temporal epilepsy.
Wrong professional.

This is basic stuff.
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