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Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:41 pm
by Impenitent
commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:37 pm
Impenitent wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:17 pm
and those humans who cannot use language must not be conscious...
-Imp
Humor, I assume.
have you ever met anyone with autism?
-Imp
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:52 pm
by commonsense
Impenitent wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:41 pm
commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:37 pm
Impenitent wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:17 pm
and those humans who cannot use language must not be conscious...
-Imp
Humor, I assume.
have you ever met anyone with autism?
-Imp
No. Must they not be conscious?
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:54 pm
by Skepdick
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:31 pm
OP is still wrong, debate goes on as to whether human brains are Turing machines or not. Consciousness doesn’t need something more, there is plenty of evidence to suggest it’s just brain activity and none for the opposite.
Turing machines are a shitty model of computation. There' no need to debate it - brains are not Turing machines.
Brains can do concurrent computations - Turing Machines cannot.
Brains can perform certain computations in finite time while Turing machines cannot do it even in infinite time.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:59 pm
by Skepdick
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 7:44 pm
Again you’re really not proving a mind exists just asserting there is one. Like I said we don’t really have evidence for it.
You do understand that "existence proofs" are an ill-defined notion outside of the paradigm of mathematics, right?
And the fact that you are speaking about proofs and evidence in the same sentence is all the evidence necessary that you speak mindlessly while confusing the different paradigms of thought.
The fact that humans can reify and replicate aspects of human thinking into machines which bear no physical semblance to a human brain is all the evidence nessessary that minds exist.
The software I write encodes my intentions in matter.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:24 pm
by Darkneos
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:54 pm
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:31 pm
OP is still wrong, debate goes on as to whether human brains are Turing machines or not. Consciousness doesn’t need something more, there is plenty of evidence to suggest it’s just brain activity and none for the opposite.
Turing machines are a shitty model of computation. There' no need to debate it - brains are not Turing machines.
Brains can do concurrent computations - Turing Machines cannot.
Brains can perform certain computations in finite time while Turing machines cannot do it even in infinite time.
Wrong
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:24 pm
by Darkneos
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:59 pm
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 7:44 pm
Again you’re really not proving a mind exists just asserting there is one. Like I said we don’t really have evidence for it.
You do understand that "existence proofs" are an ill-defined notion outside of the paradigm of mathematics, right?
And the fact that you are speaking about proofs and evidence in the same sentence is all the evidence necessary that you speak mindlessly while confusing the different paradigms of thought.
The fact that humans can reify and replicate aspects of human thinking into machines which bear no physical semblance to a human brain is all the evidence nessessary that minds exist.
The software I write encodes my intentions in matter.
Also wrong
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:25 pm
by Skepdick
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:24 pm
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:54 pm
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:31 pm
OP is still wrong, debate goes on as to whether human brains are Turing machines or not. Consciousness doesn’t need something more, there is plenty of evidence to suggest it’s just brain activity and none for the opposite.
Turing machines are a shitty model of computation. There' no need to debate it - brains are not Turing machines.
Brains can do concurrent computations - Turing Machines cannot.
Brains can perform certain computations in finite time while Turing machines cannot do it even in infinite time.
Wrong
Q.E.D
Turing machines can't assert "right" or "wrong".
Which necessarily means you are wrong about me being wrong.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:25 pm
by Darkneos
commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:52 pm
Impenitent wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:41 pm
commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:37 pm
Humor, I assume.
have you ever met anyone with autism?
-Imp
No. Must they not be conscious?
Swing and a miss
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:25 pm
by Darkneos
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:25 pm
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:24 pm
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:54 pm
Turing machines are a shitty model of computation. There' no need to debate it - brains are not Turing machines.
Brains can do concurrent computations - Turing Machines cannot.
Brains can perform certain computations in finite time while Turing machines cannot do it even in infinite time.
Wrong
Q.E.D
Turing machines can't assert "right" or "wrong".
Wrong.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:25 pm
by Skepdick
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:24 pm
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:59 pm
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 7:44 pm
Again you’re really not proving a mind exists just asserting there is one. Like I said we don’t really have evidence for it.
You do understand that "existence proofs" are an ill-defined notion outside of the paradigm of mathematics, right?
And the fact that you are speaking about proofs and evidence in the same sentence is all the evidence necessary that you speak mindlessly while confusing the different paradigms of thought.
The fact that humans can reify and replicate aspects of human thinking into machines which bear no physical semblance to a human brain is all the evidence nessessary that minds exist.
The software I write encodes my intentions in matter.
Also wrong
Wrong about me being wrong. Twice now.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:26 pm
by Skepdick
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:25 pm
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:25 pm
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:24 pm
Wrong
Q.E.D
Turing machines can't assert "right" or "wrong".
Wrong.
Make that 3 times.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:27 pm
by Darkneos
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:26 pm
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:25 pm
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:25 pm
Q.E.D
Turing machines can't assert "right" or "wrong".
Wrong.
Make that 3 times.
Wrong again.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:28 pm
by Skepdick
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:27 pm
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:26 pm
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:25 pm
Wrong.
Make that 3 times.
Wrong again.
Produce the algorithm which runs on a Turing Machine and determines that I am "wrong" and consider this settled...
Otherwise that's the 4th time you are wrong about me being wrong.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:30 pm
by Darkneos
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:28 pm
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:27 pm
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:26 pm
Make that 3 times.
Wrong again.
Produce the algorithm which runs on a Turing Machine and determines that I am "wrong" and consider this settled...
Otherwise that's the 4th time you are wrong about be being wrong.
You’re just wrong dude.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:30 pm
by Skepdick
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:30 pm
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:28 pm
Darkneos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:27 pm
Wrong again.
Produce the algorithm which runs on a Turing Machine and determines that I am "wrong" and consider this settled...
Otherwise that's the 4th time you are wrong about be being wrong.
You’re just wrong dude.
You are just wrong about me being wrong dude.