Philosophy Now Forum

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:41 am We all know it, I assume, the feeling that certain places have some sort of indefinable spiritual power or significance. In other words, they are numinous. But what causes this, and does it vary from person to person? Do Christians, for example, have this feeling inside churches? Perhaps they do, though I find churches to be quite lifeless and uninviting, even the medieval ones that are potentially interesting for historical reasons. For me, at least, I don't think I've had the feeling anywhere indoors at all. Outside, in nature, it's very different, but even then, certain specific locations stand out as being particularly powerful, where your skin literally tingles. For this reason I've often thought that the feeling may be derived from something physical, such as electro-magnetism, but I suppose this would only apply if everyone could agree which places were special in this way. I strongly suspect, though, that our early ancestors were fully aware of this phenomenon, and that this formed the basis of the first religious beliefs.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:04 am I particularly like stone circles, especially the smaller ones, because they create a feeling of being outside and inside an enclosure at the same time. That's presumably why they were created that way.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:15 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:41 am We all know it, I assume, the feeling that certain places have some sort of indefinable spiritual power or significance. In other words, they are numinous. But what causes this, and does it vary from person to person? Do Christians, for example, have this feeling inside churches? Perhaps they do, though I find churches to be quite lifeless and uninviting, even the medieval ones that are potentially interesting for historical reasons. For me, at least, I don't think I've had the feeling anywhere indoors at all. Outside, in nature, it's very different, but even then, certain specific locations stand out as being particularly powerful, where your skin literally tingles. For this reason I've often thought that the feeling may be derived from something physical, such as electro-magnetism, but I suppose this would only apply if everyone could agree which places were special in this way. I strongly suspect, though, that our early ancestors were fully aware of this phenomenon, and that this formed the basis of the first religious beliefs.

I think it comes from the recognition of greatness and perhaps a tiny sense of self-idolation. We, humans (a bunch of hairless apes) did that!

I marvel at the esprit de corps of any culture. Even if it's not "my own" and I share this feeling of what humans are capable of achieving when driven by common goals.

Reification, art and the myth of creation really do go hand-in-hand.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:20 am But the feeling also occurs in completely natural places, without any human achievement behind it.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:20 am But the feeling also occurs in completely natural places, without any human achievement behind it.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:41 am We all know it, I assume, the feeling that certain places have some sort of indefinable spiritual power or significance. In other words, they are numinous. But what causes this, and does it vary from person to person? Do Christians, for example, have this feeling inside churches? Perhaps they do, though I find churches to be quite lifeless and uninviting, even the medieval ones that are potentially interesting for historical reasons. For me, at least, I don't think I've had the feeling anywhere indoors at all. Outside, in nature, it's very different, but even then, certain specific locations stand out as being particularly powerful, where your skin literally tingles. For this reason I've often thought that the feeling may be derived from something physical, such as electro-magnetism, but I suppose this would only apply if everyone could agree which places were special in this way. I strongly suspect, though, that our early ancestors were fully aware of this phenomenon, and that this formed the basis of the first religious beliefs.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:27 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:20 am But the feeling also occurs in completely natural places, without any human achievement behind it.

Yeah, there is a distinct difference in the way I feel between recognizing human and natural greatness. The former is a matter of recognition - respect perhaps; while the latter is more about simple appreciation.

The similarity is only in how small and insignificant I feel before both.

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:30 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:41 am We all know it, I assume, the feeling that certain places have some sort of indefinable spiritual power or significance. In other words, they are numinous. But what causes this, and does it vary from person to person? Do Christians, for example, have this feeling inside churches? Perhaps they do, though I find churches to be quite lifeless and uninviting, even the medieval ones that are potentially interesting for historical reasons. For me, at least, I don't think I've had the feeling anywhere indoors at all. Outside, in nature, it's very different, but even then, certain specific locations stand out as being particularly powerful, where your skin literally tingles. For this reason I've often thought that the feeling may be derived from something physical, such as electro-magnetism, but I suppose this would only apply if everyone could agree which places were special in this way. I strongly suspect, though, that our early ancestors were fully aware of this phenomenon, and that this formed the basis of the first religious beliefs.

I suspect that when people experience the sensation of "numinosity" in a certain place, it is because they have brought it with them. They are already primed to feel it.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:32 am I wouldn't say I feel insignificant, exactly, but rather, part of an infinitely greater whole, part of nature.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:34 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:32 am I wouldn't say I feel insignificant, exactly, but rather, part of an infinitely greater whole, part of nature.

Same thing, I figure.

"Insignificant" is a just a humblebrag.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:33 am It's certainly not just a passive experience.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:20 am I think that might be part of it, and for me at least, the more ancient something is, the more I feel a connection to it. Stone circles are a good example. But the feeling also occurs in completely natural places, without any human achievement behind it.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:37 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:20 am I think that might be part of it, and for me at least, the more ancient something is, the more I feel a connection to it. Stone circles are a good example. But the feeling also occurs in completely natural places, without any human achievement behind it.

Would it surprise you to learn that people can get this numenous feelings through visual experiences, like paintings or even video games?

I've been playing through the recent Zelda game lately, and a huge portion of this game feels deliberately designed to create numenous environments. Temple ruins in the middle of a forest with an ancient statue, for example. I don't know if I feel exactly numenous about it, but I'm sure some people do.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:36 am
Like any emotional feeling, it's difficult to put into words.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:34 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:32 am I wouldn't say I feel insignificant, exactly, but rather, part of an infinitely greater whole, part of nature.

Same thing, I figure.

"Insignificant" is a just a humblebrag.