Dimebag wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:50 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:20 am
You would have to provide some examples here, and then these examples would have to suffice for EVERY thing else also.
Of course, there are some 'things' 'we', as a human being, can FREELY choose to want, and there are some 'things' that 'we' can NOT and do NOT FREELY choose to want.
For example, the innate WANT to live in Peace and in Harmony with EVERY one, which we are ALL born with, is NOT what 'we' chose to want, 'in the beginning'. (Or, did 'we'?) This could only be Truly KNOWN once 'we' can answer the question, 'Who are 'we'?' properly AND correctly, and for ONCE and for ALL.
For the things which we freely choose to want, how do we arrive at those choices? Maybe at the moment of choice by means of degrees of freedom, but the causes of the choices of what we want must always have some causal chain which leads back to something external to us, be it some experience which forms an interest, which then guides a choice, or maybe some personality trait which was never chosen by us, but which was some result of a combination of environment and genetic inheritance.
Okay. But, to me, 'free will' still refers to the ABILITY to choose, and 'determinism' still refers to the rest like you have expressed here.
Dimebag wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:50 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:20 am
To me, this example is of and from a VERY narrowed and short sighted view of things.
The female gender of the species human being have been 'walking freely' for millions of years without ANY such "issue" as you have portrayed here.
I merely describe the reality that is the tendency of males to want to seek females without their consent.
I am NOT sure WHERE EXACTLY you are getting this view from.
Are you of the male gender? And if yes, do you have a tendency to want to seek females without their consent? If yes, then do you think or believe that this tendency is a reality for ALL of the male gender?
If no to ANY of these, then WHERE EXACTLY did you get your view from that the 'reality' is there is a tendency in males to seek females without their consent from?
Dimebag wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:50 pm
Today it is accepted that women have a right to not be advanced upon from all sides by males, and I know it was not always the case throughout history, but it was the case that violence usually ensued when the eventual conflict occurs between males over females. And because our society has deemed it inappropriate for people to engage in violence to settle disputes, it is now necessary to keep these tendencies in check.
Well we have VERY DIFFERENT and OPPOSING views here.
Dimebag wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:50 pm
Thus the threat of “violence” or law, ensures rules are maintained even when the ones who would enforce those laws aren’t present. This seems to make for a more orderly society, and furthermore, one which is much easier to control, as they aren’t used to engaging in violence.
Yes our views are VERY DIFFERENT here.
Also, are you suggesting here that the ONLY reason WHY you do NOT do wrong is because of just some human made laws?
Dimebag wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:50 pm
This has not always been the case.
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:20 am
the way, the word 'actions' here does NOT fit in PERFECTLY with 'this' NOR with the BIG Picture of ALL-OF-THIS. But this is such a minor thing for now to even be concerned with at all. And, your use of the words, "our tendency for our "minds" to wander means ...", is just ANOTHER attempt at NOT taking FULL RESPONSIBILITY and of just TRYING TO blame some 'thing' else for our OWN behavior.
Saying, 'our' tendency and 'our' "mind" is just TRYING TO blame NOT 'us', "ourselves", but some 'thing' OTHER 'thing' than 'us', for OUR OWN DOING.
You seem very hung up on the responsibility of the individual.
You seem to use words like "hung up" to put a particular perspective on 'things'.
The reason I LOOK AT and TALK ABOUT 'responsibility' or LACK OF 'responsibility' here is because this a MAIN ISSUE in regards to what I have set out to create and achieve.
Dimebag wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:50 pm
Can you please explain to me how your view of responsibility meshes with your view of consciousness?
Consciousness, is just 'that' what is AWARE of ALL things.
'Responsibility' is 'that' what is 'taken' and/or 'accepted'.
How these two views mesh is that Consciousness, Itself, is ALWAYS AWARE and so KNOWS when 'accepting responsibility' and when 'taking responsibility' is happening and occurring or NOT.
Dimebag wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:50 pm
If we are not the first cause of our actions (or whatever word you prefer), but causal chains do indeed contribute to the way our choices happen, at what point to we assign responsibility for said choices and thus actions (again, not sure what other word to use, happenings maybe?)
If 'we' want to talk about assigning responsibility then this applies to 'behaviors' and NOT 'actions'.
By the way, who and/or what is the 'we', which you talk about here?
To KNOW if 'we' are or are NOT the first cause, then I need to know how 'you' are defining the word 'we' here.
To me, as an adult then 'you' are the FIRST and ONLY CAUSE to ALL of the behaviors of that body, and as such are 'you' are 'responsible' for ALL of those behaviors.
'you' have FREE WILL and thus ABILITY to choose, but as I was saying what choices one can choose from is depended solely upon that bodies past experiences, which has been predetermined by ALL the past experiences.
When one 'assigns responsibility' is COMPLETELY and UTTERLY up to that one. But, if and when a human being has been brought up PROPERLY and CORRECTLY, then they will assign responsibility to "them" 'self', for the choices that they make, when they have Truly matured enough.
Dimebag wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:50 pm
Aren’t we just along for the ride?
Children are along for the ride. And, it is said, 'human beings' are just children in Life.
A Truly, evolved, matured one, however, accepts and takes FULL responsibility for what they are creating and causing here.
Dimebag wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:50 pm
I thought we agreed on this?
I agreed that 'you', human beings, are 'just along for the ride'.
Dimebag wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:50 pm
If that’s the case, who is the one who is choosing?
EVERY human being. Human beings are ALL completely FREE to make choices. This is HOW and WHY 'free will' EXISTS. But who/what is causing 'you', human beings, to choose the choices that you are all making, then that is another matter. And, as I said previously; when it is REVEALED the very reason WHY ALL of 'you', human beings, are 'just along for the ride', in the way that 'you' are, then ALL will be UNDERSTOOD, and thus Truly FORGIVEN.